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Old 07-04-2015, 02:01 PM
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Our story with God is a love story. From the moment we were made, we were bound to God The Father, God The Son, and God The Spirit.

We, the saved of God, are truth speakers, but we should all be love seekers as well. Our love speaks volumes ahead our words. Who we are is in the van and what we say trails behind. Before you speak, who you are is announced at the city gates. Do you come in peace? Do you come in love? Do you come with gifts and your affection? When your words flow, already they have been assigned a place in the heart of your hearer.

Would you save the world from evil? Then, shun it in your heart and do not shrink from it in your battles. Then, your leadership will be there for all to see, and they will follow your words to the Truth like a watercourse to the ocean.

But forsake love, and your countenance will teach them about your emptiness before ever you utter a sentence. Truth without love is a dead thing that cannot bring life. If you will not dance with the Spirit of God in your heart, then, her lessons will be absent from your soul.

In the beginning, God made man in the image of God...male and female he made them. The name of God in this scripture is the plural "We will make man in our image". Everywhere in the old testament, the name of The Holy Spirit is feminine. God is male and female, and we are the image of God in the earth.

A woman is taught the lessons of tenderness and affection and connection to companion a man's truth and law and governance. But the new man created by Christ is all in all. A man reborn in God is of God. And he will have The Spirit of the Lord speaking Wisdom into his heart and Christ ordering his footsteps and the Father listening intently to his prayers.

The true man of God is whole; he walks with men and God and does not lose his common ground with all.


Last edited by KBR; 07-04-2015 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:30 AM
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Our story with God is a love story.
I don't know about that. love is between two people.
that is what I understand of it.
the reasons wars are what they are today is because the message of loving is crosswired with god.
one can commit a crime in the name of religion is because they think they love god more then they love their fellow human
just a thought.
A woman is taught the lessons of tenderness and affection and connection to companion a man's truth and law and governance.
cant a woman feel that naturally without being taught anything?
instinct comes to mind
and
does a man need to be governed with laws that do not subscribe across the globe??
just a thought.
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:48 AM
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...and on the third day He rolled away the rock and came out, whereupon He saw His shadow and we had six more weeks of winter..and so it is written.
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Old 07-05-2015, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaines View Post
...and on the third day He rolled away the rock and came out, whereupon He saw His shadow and we had six more weeks of winter..and so it is written.

'weeks' is a misprint.
Millennia is the correct translation from Aramaic to English.

Proofreaders had a hard time. What with the lack of good opticians and the wavering candle light.


Of course 'winter' is a metaphor for trying times.




Hey! Who threw that stone?
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Old 07-05-2015, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaines View Post
...and on the third day He rolled away the rock and came out, whereupon He saw His shadow and we had six more weeks of winter..and so it is written.
what came out?
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Old 07-05-2015, 05:41 PM
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Love can be just one or two or more. If should love others like you love yourself and you can't stand yourself, then, your love of others will be harsh and demeaning. The implication is that you must have a degree of healthy self love which is love with only one not even two. Is that a romantic love...I hope not. But love between you (one) and God The Father, between you and God The Son, and between you and God The Holy Spirit. In this case, love is a little more complicated. But there's no sex, so that removes a lot of complexity.

Men and women don't need to be taught the things I listed, they are attributes of men and woman that has "baked in". In other words, these qualities are intrinsic. But they are also deliberate and reflect similar qualities in God.

Hope this helps!

Kirk

Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
I don't know about that. love is between two people.
that is what I understand of it.
the reasons wars are what they are today is because the message of loving is crosswired with god.
one can commit a crime in the name of religion is because they think they love god more then they love their fellow human
just a thought.

cant a woman feel that naturally without being taught anything?
instinct comes to mind
and
does a man need to be governed with laws that do not subscribe across the globe??
just a thought.
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Old 07-05-2015, 05:59 PM
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Thanks for adding some humor Gaines! God has a sense of humor.

Just so you know, I have no religious affiliation. I believe in a direct relationship with God, and I have that. Religions are instituted among men and do not satisfy, but a relationship with God is based on faith and love and an obedient heart. And if you will do these things, then, God will draw near, and you will know the Living God personally, intimately.

Who would I be to possess this great gift, and then, to keep it to myself? I would be a selfish man without any love for others. People can stuff religion down your throat. But this thing I speak of must be sought. You must search for God out of an inner need or desire to get a closer look. There is no horse, no water, and no leading. Either it is in you to seek it out, or else, it is absent from your heart.

Kirk

Originally Posted by Gaines View Post
...and on the third day He rolled away the rock and came out, whereupon He saw His shadow and we had six more weeks of winter..and so it is written.
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:47 AM
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[QUOTE=KBR

I have no religious affiliation. I believe in a direct relationship with God

[/QUOTE]


Q. How did humans know God before religion was invented?

A. Perfectly.
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Old 07-06-2015, 05:54 AM
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I can only speak from with certainly about my experience.

Otherwise -- even though I'm well aware of all the potential negatives, I wouldn't presume to believe religion precludes or prevents a direct relationship with God -- or that it can't enhance or facilitate such a relationship.

That that would require seeing inside the hearts and minds of everyone affiliated with a religion -- and somehow knowing and understanding the exact nature and depth of their relationship with God. And from what I understand, I'm pretty sure only He can do that.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
Q. How did humans know God before religion was invented?

A. Perfectly.
I doubt it. I think when any human being is thinking about God, the perception or understanding of Him is imperfect. But maybe that's just me.

Last edited by JoeMatt; 07-06-2015 at 06:10 AM..
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by KBR View Post
Just so you know, I have no religious affiliation. I believe in a direct relationship with God, and I have that. Religions are instituted among men and do not satisfy, but a relationship with God is based on faith and love and an obedient heart. And if you will do these things, then, God will draw near, and you will know the Living God personally, intimately.
Doesn't matter if it's one person or a thousand or a billion people flogging people their beliefs. No matter how you try to couch it -- you're just another Christian telling other Christians that what they believe and how they choose to worship is wrong. Just what the world needs.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeMatt View Post
I doubt it. I think when any human being is thinking about God, the perception or understanding of Him is imperfect. But maybe that's just me.
Perhaps the distance between thinking about and moving with is reflected in the difference between perfectly and otherwise.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:13 AM
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What exactly do you mean by "moving with?" Generally, beliefs and actions are preceded by some kind of thinking. At least it seems like they should be.

Even if you are moved by the Holy Spirit or some other spiritual experience, thinking will be required at some point in order for you to process what happened and put your resulting beliefs it into action -- and that's where our human frailties and imperfections will come into play.
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Old 07-06-2015, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
'weeks' is a misprint.
Millennia is the correct translation from Aramaic to English.

Proofreaders had a hard time. What with the lack of good opticians and the wavering candle light.


Of course 'winter' is a metaphor for trying times.




Hey! Who threw that stone?


shabuwa
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Old 07-06-2015, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeMatt View Post
What exactly do you mean by "moving with?"

I don't mean anything exactly.

I can offer a representation of what it was lookin' like for awhile yesterday.

Watch some Tai Otoshi on you tube (tai means big and otoshi means drop).

At times I was the Tori (the dropper) and at times I was the Uke (dropee).

I can't communicate what I am experiencing as I am flying or flinging with a printed or spoken medium. And there certainly is no logical thinking that validates such activity while shepherding a gimpy armed 62 year old uninsured body towards the 90s.

It's simply a time when there is an umistakeable sensation of wholeness.


Now I do believe I recognize your manner of engaging all that is from how I have been.

And I see nothing unequal between the way you operate your vehicle and the way I operate mine.

We simply are traversing differing terrain and thus employing appropriate inidentical skills to stay on our path.


Yes, I recall that "Martial Art" stuff don't get it for you.
Are you aware of Dzogchen?
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:27 PM
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I'm just saying that when human beings are part of the equation, nothing is perfect. And I'm talking specifically about Christianity.

What the disciples knew about God, they learned straight from Jesus. But even after they were visited by the Holy Spirit, I don't believe they were imbued with some perfect knowledge of God.

And I'm guessing from the moment they began to spread the word, there was likely miscommunication and disagreement that resulted in disputes and division -- although we can't know for sure. That would include someone who said -- OK, that sounds good, but I'm going to do this my way and without you guys.

In that respect, I don't believe that any knowledge of God has ever been perfect -- even prior to what likely was a very brief period before anything we might recognize as organized Christianity.

There you go -- no martial arts analogies required.

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Old 07-06-2015, 01:49 PM
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Perhaps as we cling to our humanity our divinity remains ungrasped.


(Are you smiling, KBR?)
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Old 07-06-2015, 01:58 PM
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You used the word "perfectly" -- you didn't say anything about divinity.

As far as I know, only one perfect man has ever walked the earth -- so I'm not clinging to anything. I just think that we are all imperfect to some degree -- and that includes how we consider, talk about and worship God etc.

And I don't know about KBR -- but I sure am smiling.

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Old 07-06-2015, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeMatt View Post
You used the word "perfectly" -- you didn't say anything about divinity.

Once heard the Navajo, when making a blanket, intentionally break a thread and tie a knot to keep from making something perfect. Said perfection wasn't for them to create.

Good to see my ability to express my spirit follows suit with their concept of right action

And I don't know about KBR -- but I sure am smiling.
Well that makes two of us.

Or is it the same smile in two states?


Man, I marvel at how inept I am at this quote/ reply function.

Tie the knot and keep on weaving, eh?
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Old 07-06-2015, 02:56 PM
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Heh. I have no idea -- but we're about to pile in the car and go out for ice cream now -- and that's always a good reason to smile in my book.
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Old 07-06-2015, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeMatt View Post
Heh. I have no idea -- but we're about to pile in the car and go out for ice cream now -- and that's always a good reason to smile in my book.
Seems a happy book.

That's good enough for me.
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:44 PM
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Before there were soldiers, there were warriors. The skills of war were passed down by teachers who were themselves proven in battle.

Before there were factory workers, there were artisans. They apprenticed under Masters until they could be approved as Journeymen by their guild.

We have taken a Henry Ford assembly line approach to most things in our modern lives. But using this technique for everything from modern medicine to spirituality is probably inadvisable.

I started looking for God when I was a teenager. And it was far from a non thinking affair. I spent my high school years reading everything in the library on philosophy, history, religion, science and engineering. While everyone else was doing whatever people do in high school, I was wandering the great out doors thinking about the big questions. I looked within unblinkingly and saw the saint and the serial killer and didn't turn away.

It took a tremendous amount of courage and mental discipline. And it never stopped until I found Him. It was a Homeric search. Is it a wonder that God honored such a passionate search that stretched over decades?

I could teach someone else how to connect with God. But it's not a class and it won't fit behind a pulpit.

Here's lesson number one. God is a gentleman. To draw near to God, you need good manners. Know when you must formally present your petition and when you can horse around. Understand when you say "Lord" and when you cry "Daddy".

Lesson number two. God talks to everyone everywhere at all times. If you don't hear God. Take responsibility. The fault is yours. Don't despair. You just don't know what to look for.
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Pierce View Post
(Are you smiling, KBR?)
I don't think he's smiling now. He seems a little grumpy to me.
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeMatt View Post
He seems a little grumpy to me.

I like to think that over the years I've gotten a feel for his personality.

(excuse me for typin' like you ain't here, K)

I think this is his determined mien.
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:49 AM
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Okay. Kind of comes across as sanctimonious and dogmatic to me -- but I guess determined works too.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:54 PM
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I'm not grumpy or self righteous. Everyone says they want to talk to God but only if he has a Twitter account and agrees to stay out of their business because they're doing just fine thank you. This is not you Joe. But don't you believe that it's the preponderance? I would be interested to hear a good defense. I think apathy is the default state but that there is real passion in some souls. But their number is lower than we would care to admit. People love to argue religion because it lives outside of them. But I'm talking about the inner life the place where God and Man overlap. And that's a territory that makes everyone uncomfortable.
My family lives in Atlanta still. When I go back to visit again. I'd be happy to discuss this stuff. And Nick does know how to read me. And he's a part of reason for my honest forthright presentation. Nick's no holds barred writing has made me think about getting more straight out with my own communications. Friends can always come to an understanding. The hecklers will always shout from the peanut gallery. But why should we change our message to suit them?

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Old 07-07-2015, 01:07 PM
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If not for the action coming from the peanut gallery I would have to buy my vegetables.
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KBR View Post
I'm not grumpy or self righteous. Everyone says they want to talk to God but only if he has a Twitter account and agrees to stay out of their business because they're doing just fine thank you. This is not you Joe. But don't you believe that it's the preponderance? I would be interested to hear a good defense. I think apathy is the default state but that there is real passion in some souls. But their number is lower than we would care to admit. People love to argue religion because it lives outside of them. But I'm talking about the inner life the place where God and Man overlap. And that's a territory that makes everyone uncomfortable.
My family lives in Atlanta still. When I go back to visit again. I'd be happy to discuss this stuff. And Nick does know how to read me. And he's a part of reason for my honest forthright presentation. Nick's no holds barred writing has made me think about getting more straight out with my own communications. Friends can always come to an understanding. The hecklers will always shout from the peanut gallery. But why should we change our message to suit them?
I know you mean well. But in my opinion, post #7 makes you look like just another Christian who believes he’s closer to God than other Christians because of X. That’s what has been dividing Christians from the beginning and what repulses non-Christians. It doesn’t matter that you aren’t affiliated with a religion -- if you present the same holier-than-though attitude.

I don’t think there’s anything good that comes out of judging someone else’s relationship with God -- certainly not in a public forum like this one. So what if someone isn’t an “artisan” – maybe he or she takes spirituality off the “assembly line” and then it grows into something deeper and more profound. I can never say for sure -- because I can never fully understand or see the true nature of anyone’s relationship with God other than my own -- and even then I have some uncertainty.

Am I setting anything like a good example of Christianity with my tone and my previous comments? Probably not. I can acknowledge that – and after all, I’m judging you too. Regardless, I suggest you examine your presentation – and really look at it from the perspective of someone who’s seeking or on the fence. Maybe stick with your message about love -- and leave the evaluation of other people's “inner life” to God.

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Old 07-07-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KBR View Post
Our story with God is a love story. From the moment we were made, we were bound to God The Father, God The Son, and God The Spirit.

We, the saved of God, are truth speakers, but we should all be love seekers as well. Our love speaks volumes ahead our words. Who we are is in the van and what we say trails behind. Before you speak, who you are is announced at the city gates. Do you come in peace? Do you come in love? Do you come with gifts and your affection? When your words flow, already they have been assigned a place in the heart of your hearer.

Would you save the world from evil? Then, shun it in your heart and do not shrink from it in your battles. Then, your leadership will be there for all to see, and they will follow your words to the Truth like a watercourse to the ocean.

But forsake love, and your countenance will teach them about your emptiness before ever you utter a sentence. Truth without love is a dead thing that cannot bring life. If you will not dance with the Spirit of God in your heart, then, her lessons will be absent from your soul.

In the beginning, God made man in the image of God...male and female he made them. The name of God in this scripture is the plural "We will make man in our image". Everywhere in the old testament, the name of The Holy Spirit is feminine. God is male and female, and we are the image of God in the earth.

A woman is taught the lessons of tenderness and affection and connection to companion a man's truth and law and governance. But the new man created by Christ is all in all. A man reborn in God is of God. And he will have The Spirit of the Lord speaking Wisdom into his heart and Christ ordering his footsteps and the Father listening intently to his prayers.

The true man of God is whole; he walks with men and God and does not lose his common ground with all.
You seem like someone who would appreciate the following passage about love and brotherhood. The words belong to Henry Koestline. I hope you enjoy what Mr. Koestline had to say.
____________________________

No other quality of God is so easily seen in the life and teachings of Jesus as the quality of love. Indeed, love is so central to the character of God, as presented in and by Jesus, that some of the New Testament writers say God is love.

Love is a broad term with many levels of intensity and purity; but certainly divine love is the highest of all. Human love may approach divine love, however, and Jesus urged his followers to participate in the divine love in their relationships with each other.

The love of Jesus is not a sentimental, romantic love, the kind of love which permeates American culture until it becomes an idol of worship for advertisers and filmmakers. The love of Jesus is a hard-headed, down-to-earth real love for those considered unlovely as well as the lovely in our society. It is love that encourages the depressed and weary, and wants justice and forgiveness, and a better life for the downtrodden. This love is tough; it has to be to remain love, and not degenerate into despair or cynicism.

The two greatest commandments, Jesus pointed out, are those demanding the love of God and love of one’s neighbor. And he made it clear in his story of the Good Samaritan that neighbor means anyone in need.
The whole man given in love was Jesus’ ideal of goodness. This goodness, essential to God’s kingdom, is a light shining from within and reflecting outward through one’s behavior, through his acts towards God, himself, and other people.

This love is the key to our survival on earth and salvation in heaven.



J You mentioned your search to find God by what was written about Him (an intellectual search). I would like to inform you that sometimes God goes searching for people in the most unlikely places. Jesus has found and communicated with those without schooling, those who cannot even read or write. Human relationships with God can best be described like shapes of snowflakes in that they are all different. Thus, the most accurate statement that could be made about God is all things are possible with God.
J

I also like this quote by Gandhi:


“The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.”

J Now if you erase the word “yourself” from the quote and replace it with “God,” you will have built an expressway to God’s heart.

Cheers & Peace

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Old 07-07-2015, 03:36 PM
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We're riding on the freeway of love in a pink Cadillac..
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