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Why the state should educate and support children.

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  #31  
Old 09-14-2013, 11:07 PM
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I'd vote for tahdas.

Why?

Mainly boredom. I'm a fatalist and I'm pretty sure he would bring about the perfect climate for revolution.

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  #32  
Old 09-15-2013, 12:35 AM
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I don't believe in conspiracies and never have. I believe the educational systems fail any where in the world you care to look, when they don't encourage and nurture critical thinking and enquiring minds.
Religious schools of whatever colour can blinker people, pervert thinking and subjucate reason
The state had an important role to play and so do we.
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  #33  
Old 09-15-2013, 06:11 AM
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See what I mean? You're all hopeless. Its not a theory at all. If you look hard enough you can see proof of what Im saying.

It really quite obvious what happening. Our modern school system based off of pre nazi Germany's. The point of it was to produce people who thought what Germany wanted them to think.

It's the same here.

Most people don't even need or want to go to school. I've said this before and ill say it again, most people aren't ment to be students or scholars.
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  #34  
Old 09-15-2013, 06:29 AM
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tahdas, you can't pre-counter my argument by saying "I know you'll say I'm wrong,"; that's an ages old technique, and I formally refute the idea that it is a valid tactic.
Further more, the "you're deluded (a sheep), so you couldn't possibly have valid or original thoughts, and thereby automatically lose the argument," argument is a cop-out also.

Fact is, I'm a communist at heart. I'm not going to spout the reasons why, but I know that a mixture of 6/2/2 communism, socialism and capitalism is the prime governmental theology for me.

First off, I went to a british comprehensive; the worst of the worst. My school was in 'special measures' the whole way through, so don't think I didn't know what adult incompetence looked like from an early age.
I was at the bottom of social pile, too: fat and eager for knowledge. So I had the clearest, rawest display of teenage ignorance and what came of it.

Second: Indoctrinated? Please, my parents were hippies; we were taught to question everything the papers said. My mother was a lawyer, too, so I never did anything I was told to without understanding why I was doing it, and what would happen when I did.

Probe and do your research instead of assuming.

The actual argument comes down to a simple series of questions:
Why are we taxed?
Tax money pays for public services. We are taxed because we want transport, protection, parks, rubbish collection, and all the rest of it.
Why don't we privatise that stuff?
So that the prices stay fair or non-existent. More importantly though, so that they not change with market trends.
Why does the government control it all?
So that society doesn't fall apart. Plain and simple.
Give people who are only interested in money control of what would usually be public services, and they'll realise they have the power to milk us for every penny without penalty. That's a capitalist-fascist government. And the two worst words we have stuck together.

That's why we need a government focussed on the good of the people.
The only deluded people are those who think something like that will run autonomously. We want to not have to think about the running of our countries all the time, so we get someone else to do it; to vote on our behalf. But every now and again, those people have to reigned in. They have to be reminded that they're only there by the grace of the people, and we'll fucking remove them if they're not doing what we want.

So, in short: the government should pay for our education. Only because we want them to.

PS: You've added more.
Most people don't even need or want to go to school. I've said this before and ill say it again, most people aren't ment to be students or scholars.
That's an old, old argument. Don't think you're the only one who's thought of that, Mr. 'I see it all so clearly, you're just spouting what you've heard before'.

As the west progresses, labour jobs die out. Office jobs replace them. Call-centre drones are the new rail-workers.
We need to be able to do basic maths.
We need to be able to spell.
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Last edited by Front&Centre; 09-15-2013 at 06:36 AM..
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  #35  
Old 09-15-2013, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tahdas View Post
See what I mean? You're all hopeless. Its not a theory at all. If you look hard enough you can see proof of what Im saying.

It really quite obvious what happening. Our modern school system based off of pre nazi Germany's. The point of it was to produce people who thought what Germany wanted them to think.

It's the same here.

Most people don't even need or want to go to school. I've said this before and ill say it again, most people aren't ment to be students or scholars.
I have to hand it to you, tahdas, at least you practice what you preach. You believe folk shouldn't be educated and you've put yourself out to avoid getting an education yourself. Even here on Writer's Beat, where you could learn a great deal, you stolidly refuse to improve your grammar and punctuation. Hats off to you, tahdas, our only committed ignoramus.
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  #36  
Old 09-15-2013, 11:46 AM
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Haha, what an ass. The government keeps prices low?
Lol.
I can't carry on this conversations you're too far gone.

Assholes.

And crump....
You got me!

Last edited by tahdas; 09-15-2013 at 11:48 AM..
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  #37  
Old 09-18-2013, 02:33 PM
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Do you pay for rubbish collection?
Do you pay for a police force?
In taxes maybe, but they change evenly, for everyone, proportionally.
Imagine if you got robbed, and the police arrived. They took your details, dusted for prints, put up a 'have you seen this blurry-faced, hooded motherfucker' poster on the tree outside your house, and then handed you a bill for £500.
How fucked up would that be?
Understand that almost literally everyone in Britain, most of northern Europe and Canada think it is equal measures hilarious and pitifully sad that you Americans can get hauled out of the burning wreckage of your car after getting hit by a drunk-driver in a pick up truck, have an EMT give you an open-heart massage to bring you back from the brink of death, and then slap a multi-thousand dollar bill on your still-bruised chest before they turf you out of the hospital when someone with better insurance needs the bed.
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  #38  
Old 09-18-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Front&Centre View Post
Do you pay for rubbish collection?
Do you pay for a police force?
In taxes maybe, but they change evenly, for everyone, proportionally.
Imagine if you got robbed, and the police arrived. They took your details, dusted for prints, put up a 'have you seen this blurry-faced, hooded motherfucker' poster on the tree outside your house, and then handed you a bill for £500.
How fucked up would that be?
Understand that almost literally everyone in Britain, most of northern Europe and Canada think it is equal measures hilarious and pitifully sad that you Americans can get hauled out of the burning wreckage of your car after getting hit by a drunk-driver in a pick up truck, have an EMT give you an open-heart massage to bring you back from the brink of death, and then slap a multi-thousand dollar bill on your still-bruised chest before they turf you out of the hospital when someone with better insurance needs the bed.
You do realize that you do pay for that, and a lot more than you would if the government wasn't in control of it.

TAXES DUMBASS!

Last edited by tahdas; 09-19-2013 at 07:22 AM..
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  #39  
Old 09-19-2013, 01:07 AM
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the point is that the government is beholden to the people (or it should be) and if they tax us too high, we vote someone else in. As it is, the countries with the best economic track records, highest national happiness and highest average income are the countries with 50% tax maximums - Norway and the Netherlands, for example.
And hey, quit it with the name calling, unless you're trying to look petulant and obnoxious.
You have to understand that when those services are in private hands, there's really nothing we can do when they decide to raise their prices. You cannot know that we would be paying less. You have no fucking idea what these people would charge.
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  #40  
Old 09-19-2013, 05:45 AM
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If you don’t educate the masses, how can you expect them to understand their AR-15 user guide manuals?

They won’t understand the ‘terms and conditions’ for hunting use.
They won’t be able to count how many bullets they’ve used and how many are left.
You’ll end up with people going around firing off shots at anything that moves and … oh wait … oh I think I’m in a mucking fuddle …


The fundamental duty of the state is towards the protection, care, and wellbeing of the citizens that put it in power to serve them, our part in this is to help fund the system through taxation – and it would also have been through the profit of publically owned industries and services if it wasn’t for successive Tory governments chipping away and destroying the welfare state. If you want to know the consequences of not having a state education system to serve everyone, regardless of their income or ability to pay, then turn the clock back 200 years. Even Third World countries strive to provide some form of education, no matter how basic.

No, kids don’t like going to school. I hated school, often bunked off. Kids also don’t like eating their greens, going to bed at a reasonable hour, tidying their rooms, or whatever, so what.

xDrew
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  #41  
Old 09-19-2013, 07:16 AM
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In public schooling, a student will always be taught (or indoctrinated if you're of that bent) what people in government want you to be taught.

In the US, the public education system changed from a grade 1-8 system to a K-12 system in the early 1900s for several reasons. The nation was rapidly industrializing and the system produced people ready to step out of school and into the workplace. It also provided, for 9 months out of the year a place for children when 1 or both parents were away from home at that time period.

Up to a certain point in time, states and localities had the major voice in what was learned. A student in an industrial urban center would have (in addition to the 3 Rs) some vocational instruction that typically fit the locality. Local companies often donated equipment and supplies for shop classes. (Even in the early 1980s, a local factory provided machine tools, welders and supplies and drafting equipment). If I had chosen to go to work locally instead of pursuing an engineering degree, I could have stepped into that factory and picked up the same torch on the same mig welder that I used in school and buzzed away on a bus chassis. Or went into the machine shop and work on tooling on identical Bridgeport mills or Clausing lathes.

With the decline of industry, and a mindset that a 4 year college degree is the new high school diploma, much of what is taught is....what is needed to pass the federally mandated proficiency tests. Honest teachers will tell you they are teaching "to the test".

So much is missing now.
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