WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > Write Here > Free Writing

Free Writing Plot bunnies, random musings, etc. No one-liners.


Forgiveness

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-24-2017, 07:19 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default Forgiveness


Forgiveness is simply another word for letting go.

To forgive means letting go of the negative story line, the painful little history that becomes your identity.

If you choose to live as a victim, it gives you a false kind of power and makes you feel morally superior to others.

But it will also destroy you.

It will make you smaller and smaller as time passes and as you grow older.

You will have fewer and fewer people in your life that you can trust — fewer still that you can love.

Life becomes a threat. Your comfort zone will get smaller and smaller —

until it disappears.


Last edited by Myers; 07-24-2017 at 09:15 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:26 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,792
Thanks: 329
Thanks 637
Default

I forgive you, Myers
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-24-2017, 01:01 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

And I you.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
Mohican (07-24-2017)
  #4  
Old 07-24-2017, 07:15 PM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,792
Thanks: 329
Thanks 637
Default

This brought to mind some of the lyrics from Don Henley's "The Heart of The Matter"


I've been tryin' to get down
To the heart of the matter
But my will gets weak
And my thoughts seem to scatter
But I think it's about forgiveness,
Forgiveness
Even if, even if you don't love me anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9rTiDoUU3w
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:44 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

This is about family dysfunction -- or the vestiges of it from a long time ago.

I lifted this more or less from a last straw email to my oldest sister. It's probably a bit much...

There are six of us, and we've all been able to move on -- and we're all close except for her -- and it's really pretty sad.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-26-2017, 09:06 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,720
Thanks: 354
Thanks 818
Default Forgiveness

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
This is about family dysfunction -- or the vestiges of it from a long time ago.

I lifted this more or less from a last straw email to my oldest sister. It's probably a bit much...

There are six of us, and we've all been able to move on -- and we're all close except for her -- and it's really pretty sad.


Do you find that being a good writer hinders your ability to be understood or appreciated by family when you email or text them?

Last edited by brianpatrick; 07-26-2017 at 09:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-28-2017, 01:58 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

Naw -- everyone in my family is a pretty good writer -- and they get it.

It's more likely that you'll get some kind of critique.

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
brianpatrick (07-28-2017)
  #8  
Old 07-29-2017, 08:32 AM
Tally (Offline)
Scribbler
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NE England
Posts: 30
Thanks: 7
Thanks 7
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
This is about family dysfunction -- or the vestiges of it from a long time ago.

I lifted this more or less from a last straw email to my oldest sister. It's probably a bit much...

There are six of us, and we've all been able to move on -- and we're all close except for her -- and it's really pretty sad.
I hope you don't mind my intrusion, but I would just like to contribute for a moment.

I think that forgiveness, when it is truly meant, where you can think about that time/event and genuinely not feel hurt or anger is extremely difficult. I think that your ability to forgive tends to correlate with how deep the hurt is to that person. And that hurt belongs to them, despite the good intentions of those wanting to help.

However, I also think that there is a difference between forgiveness and being that perpetual 'vcitim' as you say. I believe that people can not forgive and yet not be a victim. Instead they harness their grief/anger etc and channel it into a more positive mindset.

I know enough 'victims' who are unable to see the silver linings in life, the positive futures they could have. They keep rehashing the crap, years later. They are still hurting and that hurt was never dealt with properly in the first place for them.

Not being a victim isn't so much about forgiving and letting go, it is about (in my opinon) simply saying 'it hurts but I wont let that hurt beat me'.


As a side, the book I am currently editing, has its main themes of revenge and forgiveness. I find humans fascinating in how different we are (erm, this did not mean to sound like I'm some alien form!).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-29-2017, 08:56 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

I think what you're saying is generally true.

I don't know why I posted this -- but in this certain context, I think what I said makes sense.

It's not about egregious wrongs in this case, but an accumulation of slights, some real and some imagined, that my sister just can't or won't get over.

We've all taken responsibility for our parts in the dysfunction and in some cases, just poor communication -- we've offered and accepted forgiveness and moved on.

Life is just too short...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-29-2017, 09:03 AM
eripiomundus (Offline)
The Next Bard
Official Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 374
Thanks: 27
Thanks 105
Default

Originally Posted by Tally View Post
Not being a victim isn't so much about forgiving and letting go, it is about (in my opinon) simply saying 'it hurts but I wont let that hurt beat me'.
We all have our opinion, and yours is as valid as mine, so I don't want to offend you, but we differ in our opinions on this point. Escaping the victim mindset is ALL about letting go. If you use the hurt and anger and channel it into something else you're still working with the fruits of victim-hood, and you're still being a victim. Your life won't get better if you just try to redirect bad emotions into positive things: you'll still have to experience those emotions before you redirect them. You have to let go, as Myers (insightfully) observed.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-29-2017, 09:09 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

I think forgiveness and letting go are different or can be -- depending on the situation.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-29-2017, 09:22 AM
Tally (Offline)
Scribbler
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NE England
Posts: 30
Thanks: 7
Thanks 7
Default

Originally Posted by eripiomundus View Post
We all have our opinion, and yours is as valid as mine, so I don't want to offend you, but we differ in our opinions on this point. Escaping the victim mindset is ALL about letting go. If you use the hurt and anger and channel it into something else you're still working with the fruits of victim-hood, and you're still being a victim. Your life won't get better if you just try to redirect bad emotions into positive things: you'll still have to experience those emotions before you redirect them. You have to let go, as Myers (insightfully) observed.
You don't offend me at all I was careful to point out that it is only my opinion, as I completely agree that we are all entitled to our own, and disagreeing doesn't devalue each others. I understand what you are saying (and Myers), and I am not fully disagreeing. Yes, I agree that there will be fragments of 'victim' by not being able to fully forgive, but this does not necessarily have to conclude to being a victim and carrying that victim mentality. Let me try to explain:

I am a 'victim' of a broken family. It hit me hard and I have had trust issues all my life in one area: trusting that I can love someone who wouldn't hurt me. I still have barriers. BUT. This didn't stop me from marrying, and bit by bit my barriers break (I have been married for 19 years now). This is not to say I forgive my dad, but I am accepting that not all men are the same, and I'm trusting that my husband won't do what he did. I didn't forgive. But I didn't let it stop me from daring to put myself in a position I feared. Does this make sense?

Yes, it is the fruits of victim-hood (nice phrase), and yes, how wonderful would it be to completely forgive. But that in itself I think takes an enormous amount of strength? character? I don't know. I don't know many people who could look back at a big trauma in their life and NOT feel anger or resentment at some point. I admire Myers and his siblings for being able to do so.

(fyi for future - I rarely get offended, I enjoy getting to see, understand and learn from other people's perspectives!)
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tally For This Useful Post:
eripiomundus (07-29-2017), Myers (07-29-2017)
  #13  
Old 07-29-2017, 09:47 AM
eripiomundus (Offline)
The Next Bard
Official Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 374
Thanks: 27
Thanks 105
Default

Thanks. You made your point well. I don't practice what I'm about to preach, unfortunately, but I'll say it anyway because it's the ideal I aspire to:

Fear, such as the fear of intimacy you refer to and I experience also (I'm a hermit - the only human contact I have is 45mins a week with a doctor), is the enemy. Fear is a tool of survival: it makes us run from what will injure or destroy us. But...

We are absolutely and inescapably destined to die. Therefore, to a certain extent, fear is irrational. We fear what will harm us because harm brings us closer to death, but we WILL die. But, you might say, fear may prolong our life, and that's true, but at what cost?

Fear represents a retraction from living: instead of doing X, our fear of Y causes us to refrain. When we live in the thrall of fear we aren't actually living. We're refraining from life. I'm not advocating that we start to play with venemous snakes in frolicsome abandon, but in things like love...

We're all naturally afraid of pain, and fear of getting hurt is a real and powerful factor, but he who lives in fear desists from living. Better to go forth with an open heart and get hurt than never love at all. Wait... there's a song... better to have loved and lost than to never love at all. Is that it? Something like that.

Every moment you give in to fear you retract from life, from living, from the seconds ticking away that you'll never get back. The fearless path would not be the easy one, but it would be the most profound, most intimate, most enthralling and empowering one. To conquer all fear is the ultimate goal I think.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to eripiomundus For This Useful Post:
Tally (07-29-2017)
  #14  
Old 07-29-2017, 10:13 AM
Tally (Offline)
Scribbler
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NE England
Posts: 30
Thanks: 7
Thanks 7
Default

Originally Posted by eripiomundus View Post
The fearless path would not be the easy one, but it would be the most profound, most intimate, most enthralling and empowering one. To conquer all fear is the ultimate goal I think.
Well said. I absolutely agree with your whole post. I think that fear is the core of it all.

To forgive, is to not fear. And fear keeps us alive. It protects us from the real dangers in life (like the snakes). But to fear an abstract concept such as love... the strength of mind to overcome the fear that is nothing but a feeling...

I too aspire to not fear love. They say "feel the fear and do it anyway", and in most respects of my life I do. I take the chances, I take leaps that hold risk. But maybe I do this to channel this away from the one thing I truly do fear.

Do we really need to truly forgive in life, to have a happy life? (please say no, I don't want to have to spend all night thinking about this haha!)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tally For This Useful Post:
eripiomundus (07-29-2017)
  #15  
Old 07-29-2017, 10:44 AM
eripiomundus (Offline)
The Next Bard
Official Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 374
Thanks: 27
Thanks 105
Default

The problem with your question is the question itself: "...to live a happy life?" Happiness cannot be the goal if you want to have a fulfilling life. We cannot be happy without experiencing the opposite, so to embrace a happy life we must embrace the sadness and despair as well. You have to accept it all.

I'll explain why at a neurological level: when we experience happiness certain neurochemicals are ejected from neurons. These flow across spaces called "synaptic clefts" and then engage with parts of other neurons called "receptors". When the chemicals engage these receptors the receptors self-regulate themselves toward a homeostatic sensitivity-level. When there are a lot of "happy" neurochemicals, for instance, the receptors will regulate their sensitivity downward, and the same thing won't make you feel as happy anymore. This is why the initial effects of a novel stimulus are reduced with every successive exposure - when you eat your favourite food ALL the time it begins to taste like crap.

This in-built system means that we literally cannot, unless we have some neurological disease, be happy all the time, and in order to be happy we must "reset" our receptors by not being happy, in which case they up-regulate their sensitivity because there aren't enough "happy" neurochemicals around.

So the question "Do we really need to truly forgive in life, to have a happy life?" is a valid question, but a misplaced one. Happiness shouldn't be the goal of life, because it's unrealistic and, well, impossible. All of life is the goal of life - the ups, downs, sidewayses... all of it.

When I think back on my life my fondest memories aren't when I felt all warm and gooey, but when I faced physically hard times. My absolute favourite memory is of nearly drowning in a flooded river - I had to struggle so hard that day. Think back on some of the times you overcame some physical adversity, and I bet it makes you smile.

You won't get the same thing from conceptual adversity, because that kind of pain doesn't abate as readily as the physical kind, but conceptual adversity isn't real. If we are being pained by a concept, the only thing we need to change to stop the pain is our minds.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to eripiomundus For This Useful Post:
Tally (07-29-2017)
  #16  
Old 07-29-2017, 10:54 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

I'm OK with being relatively content while I wait for the next round of shit to hit the fan.

There are moments of happiness -- and even intermittent flashes of true joy.

And that ain't too bad...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
Grace Gabriel (07-29-2017)
  #17  
Old 07-29-2017, 11:28 AM
Tally (Offline)
Scribbler
Official Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NE England
Posts: 30
Thanks: 7
Thanks 7
Default

Originally Posted by eripiomundus View Post

We cannot be happy without experiencing the opposite, so to embrace a happy life we must embrace the sadness and despair as well. You have to accept it all.

This in-built system means that we literally cannot, unless we have some neurological disease, be happy all the time, and in order to be happy we must "reset" our receptors by not being happy, in which case they up-regulate their sensitivity because there aren't enough "happy" neurochemicals around.

I completely see your point, and agree. I know this, really. I was being flippant, but yes, you're right.

Think back on some of the times you overcame some physical adversity, and I bet it makes you smile.

I am struggling with this one. I don't think I have ever been in physical danger like that. I see your point, but can't relate to it.

You won't get the same thing from conceptual adversity, because that kind of pain doesn't abate as readily as the physical kind, but conceptual adversity isn't real. If we are being pained by a concept, the only thing we need to change to stop the pain is our minds.

And this comes back to the ability to forgive and let go.
I agree, Myers. Take the highs, and deal with the lows as they come.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-29-2017, 11:04 PM
Grace Gabriel's Avatar
Grace Gabriel (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,317
Thanks: 1,879
Thanks 1,019
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I'm OK with being relatively content while I wait for the next round of shit to hit the fan.

There are moments of happiness -- and even intermittent flashes of true joy.

And that ain't too bad...
Agreed.

I'm a very laid back person - takes enormous provocation to rattle me or piss me off.

As you get older and your losses rack up - a good day is just when everyone you love is safe and well.

I genuinely love the simple and free pleasures in life. Beautiful music to go with a sunset and i'm happy. My needs are few!
__________________
GRACE GABRIEL
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Grace Gabriel For This Useful Post:
Myers (07-30-2017)
  #19  
Old 07-30-2017, 06:16 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
Agreed.

I'm a very laid back person - takes enormous provocation to rattle me or piss me off.

As you get older and your losses rack up - a good day is just when everyone you love is safe and well.

I genuinely love the simple and free pleasures in life. Beautiful music to go with a sunset and i'm happy. My needs are few!
A few years ago our AC went out. I like to do a lot of research and get a lot of estimates before I make a decision, so we had no air for about 10 days.

Almost every night, after the kids (and sometimes my wife) put on their PJ's, we'd go down the street for ice cream. And to put off going into the house as long as possible, we'd sit in the carport and finish eating it.

Well, we still do that from time to time -- and you have to sit in the car while you finish your ice cream cone. We did it just the other night -- we were talking and laughing, they were all giving me shit as usual for biting my ice cream instead of licking it -- and it just hit me, yeah, this is it -- this is the life!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-30-2017, 06:46 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,720
Thanks: 354
Thanks 818
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
A few years ago our AC went out. I like to do a lot of research and get a lot of estimates before I make a decision, so we had no air for about 10 days.


My wife would have taken the credit card, checked into a hotel and texted me: let me know when you pull your head out of your ass. And btw, I'm eating all of the stuff in the little room fridge.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to brianpatrick For This Useful Post:
Grace Gabriel (07-30-2017), Myers (07-30-2017)
  #21  
Old 07-30-2017, 09:14 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

That's why my wife isn't allowed to have a credit card, sucker.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
brianpatrick (07-31-2017)
  #22  
Old 07-31-2017, 07:20 AM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,720
Thanks: 354
Thanks 818
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
That's why my wife isn't allowed to have a credit card, sucker.


I forgot you live in the conservative south where a wife can still be kept in her place.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to brianpatrick For This Useful Post:
Myers (08-01-2017)
  #23  
Old 08-01-2017, 04:05 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 317
Thanks 331
Default

Heh. My wife does have a credit card, but she hates to use it. She prefers cash and still uses a check book -- balanced to the penny -- and that's just fine with me.

And when our AC blew...

We don't live in Phoenix. In Atlanta in early June, you may have a high of 85.

I'm not going to spend anywhere from $5,000 - $8,500 on a whole new HVAC system at the drop of a hat. I wanted to make sure I could take advantage of any tax credits and rebates from the power company -- and not spend any more than I had to.

Plus, there were issues with the installation of the old unit, so we needed some electrical and duct work to bring it up to code. Even the old compressor was in a dumb place, so we had to put the new one in a different spot. That's what you get when have a 50 year old house.

We have lots of shade and good cross-ventilation. And we have a guest room in the finished part of our basement, and we slept in there for a few nights. It wasn't all that bad.

It was all worth feeling confident that I made the right decision.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-01-2017, 08:51 AM
DukeDePuce (Offline)
Pencil pusher
Official Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 17
Thanks: 8
Thanks 7
Default

Talking about credit cards, it reminds me of a joke.
A man had his credit card stolen. He didn't file a complaint. The thief was spending less than his wife.

Joking aside, that was very powerful and if it can get a load off your chest, I am happy for you.

Plein d'amour!
Duke de Puce
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DukeDePuce For This Useful Post:
Myers (08-01-2017)
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > Write Here > Free Writing


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Tale of Forgiveness, Redemption and Resurrection SilentNightFigh Fiction 4 07-18-2013 07:44 PM
Trust and Forgiveness (ramble) MotherMayI Free Writing 2 06-11-2012 08:57 PM
No Forgiveness for the Chrysalis Foster Poetry 6 03-23-2012 06:03 AM
Forgiveness Evanescence Poetry 0 04-19-2007 12:47 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:24 AM.

vBulletin, Copyright 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.