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Old 04-05-2006, 08:06 PM
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I recently bought Mein Kampf off of ebay and I'm waiting for it to come so that I can read it. I've been told both good and bad things about it, and I was wondering if anyone here has read it, and if so, what is your opinion on it?

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Old 04-05-2006, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Adurna
I recently bought Mein Kampf off of ebay and I'm waiting for it to come so that I can read it. I've been told both good and bad things about it, and I was wondering if anyone here has read it, and if so, what is your opinion on it?
You have heard good things about "Mein Kampf"? Hmmm...

It was written by Adolph Hitler when he was in prison for attempting to foment the violent overthrow of the democratic government of Germany in the 1920s. The book is the product of a very sick mind: clinical paranoia, murderous hatred of Jews, plans for a war of world conquest, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't read it. Everyone should read it to understand why Hitler started World War II and murdered 6 million Jews. It's an object lesson in how one man's insanity can change history.
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:56 AM
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It's a historical oddity nowadays, nothing more. Spend your time and money reading something more literary.

I'd be curious to know your age - most guys get a hankering to read MK in their mid teens (no offence if you aren't!)
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Old 04-07-2006, 08:10 AM
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I'm a girl, and I'm 19 currently. I recently decided to get into politics, and I've been meaning to read that book for quite a long time. So I figured why not do it over the summer.
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Old 04-18-2006, 11:08 PM
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This isn't one of those books that you should brag about reading later on in life.
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Old 04-21-2006, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ApplCobbler
This isn't one of those books that you should brag about reading later on in life.
I wouldn't say that at all.

Adolph Hitler was a genius. . .he was an absolutely despicable human being. . .but a genius.

It's really fascinating to read things from a fascists perspective. I'm an anarchist so I'm a fascists complete opposite, but I just find it fascinating to try and get inside these peoples heads. It's really enlightening when you think of the nature of totalitariainism.
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Old 04-22-2006, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Cuchulain
Adolph Hitler was a genius. . .he was an absolutely despicable human being. . .but a genius.
Not by my definition. A genius implies an extremely high intelligence and Hitler proved time and again he wasn't that intelligent. He was a mediocre painter and he made many bone-headed errors in military strategy during World War II. I would classify him as perhaps slightly above average in intelligence.

Hitler was a demagogue with a knack for public speaking (which he learned from a stage performer.) He appealed to the prejudices of Germans of his era, who (as one historian noted) were fed anti-semitism with their mother's milk.

Hitler was also a drug addict and more than a little psychotic. These are not qualities I associate with genius.
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Old 04-22-2006, 02:27 PM
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Psychopaths can be geniuses. . .

I know he wasn't exactly the greatest commander in the world but he was an excellent propagandist, and thats what made him a genius for me.
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Old 05-23-2006, 10:16 AM
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Hitler was a fucking moron, not a genius.

And don't read Mein Kampf, it's an utter waste of time. Instead read the Manifesto or something.
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Old 05-23-2006, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Massoud
Hitler was a fucking moron, not a genius.
He was neither. Hitler was a psychopathic demagogue with a very real talent for bringing out the worst in people. Politicians like him have always existed in every country.

Originally Posted by Massoud
And don't read Mein Kampf, it's an utter waste of time. Instead read the Manifesto or something.
I disagree. Mein Kampf shows a twisted logic of racial hatred and scape-goat tactics that can help people understand what's going on in the world today.

Marxism is virtually dead. It's time to move on to something better.
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Old 05-23-2006, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by starrwriter
He was neither. Hitler was a psychopathic demagogue with a very real talent for bringing out the worst in people. Politicians like him have always existed in every country.


No, he was quite simply a fucking moron, completely disconnected from reality.

See his military strategies during WW2, and his diplomatic actions both before and during WW2...a complete idiot, period. I don't have time to dick around with Hitler apologetics.

I disagree. Mein Kampf shows a twisted logic of racial hatred and scape-goat tactics that can help people understand what's going on in the world today.


No it can't. Mein Kampf has nothing to do with the modern world, it has nothing to do with "helping people understand what's happening in the world", it's simply Nazi propaganda. Pseudo-political rhetoric combined with social-Darwinism is of no importance to understand what's happening in the world today.

Marxism is virtually dead. It's time to move on to something better.


Marxism is certainly not dead, but capitalism certainly is dying.

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Old 05-23-2006, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Massoud
I don't have time to dick around with Hitler apologetics.
I'm not an apologist for Hitler. He was a monster who got more people killed than anyone in history except Joseph Stalin. My point is we have to understand maniacs like Hitler and Stalin to prevent a repeat of the slaughter.

Originally Posted by Massoud
Marxism is certainly not dead, but capitalism certainly is dying.
What planet have you been living on since the Soviet Union collapsed, Eastern Europe rejected communism and even the Peoples Republic of China instituted massive free-market reforms?
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by starrwriter
He was a monster who got more people killed than anyone in history except Joseph Stalin.
Hitler's death count is far higher than Stalin's.

50 million+ in WW2. And no, I'm not a Stalinist.

My point is we have to understand maniacs like Hitler and Stalin to prevent a repeat of the slaughter.
Agreed. My point is that Nazism/Fascism has nothing to do with theory, and is purely based on brutal dictatorship, there's nothing to learn about brutal dictatorships, they are what they are.

What planet have you been living on since the Soviet Union collapsed, Eastern Europe rejected communism and even the Peoples Republic of China instituted massive free-market reforms?
Oh god...there has never been a "Communist state" in history. Until you figure out what that means don't say anything about Communism again, ever.
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:15 PM
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Massoud if you must disagrre with other members of the forum can you do it politely?
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:23 PM
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kalibantre, you're right, I'm sorry. But you have to understand that Nazism/Fascism is a very sensitive subject for Marxists. I absolutely hate it when people defend it even in the slightest way because in the end that way may turn out to be their biggest mistake.

Maybe it was all right to speak of Nazism like that in the 20's, but now after all that has happened...people have to be blind to history to not see the danger of such "theories". People who recommend reading Mein Kampf get no respect from me.

But I will reply more politely in the future.
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:33 PM
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Thank you.

On topic, surely it's a good idea to read it though, what better way to know the enemy? You can crack their codes and kill their men but surely knowing how they think would be the greatest weapon?

I'm not going to get into it after this. I don't know enough just wanted to throw that out there.
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Old 05-23-2006, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Massoud
Hitler's death count is far higher than Stalin's. 50 million+ in WW2.
Japan was in the war, too. The Japanese killed an estimated 9 million in China alone.

Originally Posted by Massoud
Oh god...there has never been a "Communist state" in history.
What does that tell you about the viability of communism as a state system, considering the fact that Marxist theory has been around for 150 years?
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Old 05-23-2006, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by starrwriter, who is, to my surprise, a moderator
considering the fact that Marxist theory has been around for 150 years?
Interesting point.
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by starrwriter
Japan was in the war, too. The Japanese killed an estimated 9 million in China alone.
Nazi Germany instigated the war, that's why I attributed the 50+ million death count of the war to...Nazi Germany.

What does that tell you about the viability of communism as a state system, considering the fact that Marxist theory has been around for 150 years?
Communism isn't a state theory, Communism and state is an oxymoron.
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Old 05-24-2006, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Massoud
Nazi Germany instigated the war ...
Not the Asia/Pacific war. Imperial Japan made plans for that before the Nazi party even existed in Germany. You shouldn't take such a Eurocentric view of World War II.

Originally Posted by Massoud
Communism isn't a state theory, Communism and state is an oxymoron.
Although it's difficult to reason with someone who sounds like a closed-minded party member, I seem to recall that Karl Marx said the state would gradually disappear under communism -- meaning there is a state in the first place.
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Old 05-24-2006, 05:41 PM
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yes and thereign lies the problem with Communism, Starrwriter, the socialist phase isn't needed. I am in favor of abolishing the state right away implementing a communist utopia without the intermediate socialist step(anarchism)
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by starrwriter
Not the Asia/Pacific war. Imperial Japan made plans for that before the Nazi party even existed in Germany. You shouldn't take such a Eurocentric view of World War II.
I'm not taking a Eurocentric view of WW2, I'm taking an objective view of it.

Japan had plans for the invasion of Mongolia and the rest of China before Hitler got to power in Germany, but perhaps you forgot the fact that the USSR won a battle against Japan, repelling their troops under the leadership of Zhukov, which made them change their plans completely.

The USSR was mainly worried about Japan even after Hitler ascended to power, so even though Japan had plans they couldn't have realized them if Nazi Germany didn't invade the USSR and diverted their attention to the west.

Although it's difficult to reason with someone who sounds like a closed-minded party member, I seem to recall that Karl Marx said the state would gradually disappear under communism -- meaning there is a state in the first place.
First of all Engels (not Marx) was talking about another kind of state, that is, a state but not in the proper sense of the word, i.e., the proletarian state. Engels said the proletarian state would eventually wither away...and he was right. But he never said this about the current state, the bourgeois state, which is what you are defending and confusing with the proletarian state.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Massoud
Engels said the proletarian state would eventually wither away...and he was right. But he never said this about the current state, the bourgeois state, which is what you are defending and confusing with the proletarian state.
Me defend the bourgeois state? You wouldn't say that if you knew me. I've spent my entire life criticisizing the narrow-minded stupidity of bourgeois values and trying to escape their influence in my personal existence. I'm a bohemian at heart.

Engels wasn't right because no proletarian state has ever existed yet. And probably never will since most working people have the perverse tendency to adopt the values of their exploiters.

Shop keepers don't run the world economy today. International corporations do. Instead of Marx and Engels, read "One Dimensional Man" by Herbert Marcuse to see how the modern world functions. Things have changed a lot in the past 150 years.
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Old 05-26-2006, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by starrwriter
Me defend the bourgeois state? You wouldn't say that if you knew me. I've spent my entire life criticisizing the narrow-minded stupidity of bourgeois values and trying to escape their influence in my personal existence. I'm a bohemian at heart.
That could very well be true, but the fact of the matter is that in this particular discussion you are defending the bourgeois state.

Engels wasn't right because no proletarian state has ever existed yet.
Paris Commune. Soviet Union up until 1927.

And probably never will since most working people have the perverse tendency to adopt the values of their exploiters.
So what you are saying is that the proletariat is in essence the same as the bourgeois in terms of "values"? You need to spend more time with proletarians.

Shop keepers don't run the world economy today. International corporations do. Instead of Marx and Engels, read "One Dimensional Man" by Herbert Marcuse to see how the modern world functions. Things have changed a lot in the past 150 years.
Marxism isn't a theory stuck in the past, there have been more Marxist writers than just Marx and Engels. If you want to know how capitalism functions I suggest reading (and understanding, of course) Capital and Imperialism as the highest stage of capitalism.

If you want more "modern works" on economics and how the world functions then read some works by Cyril Smith or Ernest Mandel.
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Old 05-26-2006, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Massoud
Engels wasn't right because no proletarian state has ever existed yet.
Paris Commune. Soviet Union up until 1927.
The Paris Commune was an interesting experiment, but that's all it was -- an experiment that didn't last long. And earlier you admitted the Soviet Union was a dictatorship and not a proletarian state.

Originally Posted by Massoud
So what you are saying is that the proletariat is in essence the same as the bourgeois in terms of "values"? You need to spend more time with proletarians.
That's hilarious. Both sides of my family were working people as far back as I can trace them. All of my friends have been working people.

How about you? Is there a family trust fund involved in your life?
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Old 05-26-2006, 10:06 AM
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Well, this discussion surprises me, but the volatility of Massoud does not. Those with extreme leftist views (Communism) have always been hostile. Then again, those with extreme right-leaning views have too. I've read Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, and many other political works. After all is said and done, I subscribe to the "leave me the hell alone" system. The less government intervention the better. Whether it's Communists who are in power, Fascists, or the current nut occupying the White House, they all seek to dictate and control the lives of others. "Give me liberty or give me death."

To the young girl who bought Mein Kampf, read it. Read the Communist Manifesto also, read Jefferson and Franklin and everything you can afford to purchase. Never stop reading, and don't let others persuade you from reading whatever your heart desires. In the words of Timoth Leary, "Think for yourself; question authority." You should always investigate those things that interest you, forming your own philosophies, which may or may not be similar to others.
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Old 05-26-2006, 10:12 AM
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Ehm, my I use my WWII expertise on this one? Stalin killed a hell lot more people before, while and after the war then Hitler could have possibly ever been able to in such a time frame. Also, I want to read Mein Kampf too one day because I've read all there is to read about the war itself, I'd like to know more about Hitler and the Nazi's party. I've seen Der Untergang (or Downfall in the US) and I was VERY surprised that such a man could even get that high. Hitler was indeed NOT very intelligent, the reason why he was thrown in jail is also because he was spreading that Mein Kampf bullshit and back then it wasn't tolerated so he got thrown in jail just like you and I wuold get thrown in jail if we'd march up the street and scream some anti-semitism propeganda.

Hitler could have won the war EASILY. We (I life in The Netherlands...) could all been Nazi's right now and there wouldn't be anything to stop it, not even the US could stop Hitler once he'd have the entire continent of Europe and Asia. (Hitler would have never stopped conquering!) The Japanese war had NOTHING to do with Hitler. The only connection they have is that they occured on pretty much the same time. Japan didn't like Nazi ideals at all! Germany and Japan just signed a sort of alliance but in no social form, they'd just stay out of each other's war and that was that. That was all the connection Hitler had in common with Japan's war. Japan wanted to expand, Hitler wanted the entire world and every Jew in it dead.

Massoud I think your a teenager that is trying to submit us to your ideas and that my friend, is really annoying and it'll never work. Just stop the hostility and let this topic go on without your hostile posts. The fact that you said that Hitler killed more then Stalin shows that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about.
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Old 05-26-2006, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by starrwriter
The Paris Commune was an interesting experiment, but that's all it was -- an experiment that didn't last long.
Yes, it was military defeated.

And earlier you admitted the Soviet Union was a dictatorship and not a proletarian state.
Reread my post, I said the Soviet Union was a proletarian state up until 1927. The Stalinist faction took over the state and it degenerated into a dictatorship after that.

How about you? Is there a family trust fund involved in your life?
I am a member of the Communist League, i.e., I am a proletarian.

Originally Posted by xfacktor
The less government intervention the better.
Common liberal.

Originally Posted by _kat_
The fact that you said that Hitler killed more then Stalin shows that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about.
I have to admit, you are well-versed in bourgeois history. That is good, you have been paying attention in history class, I applaud you.

If you want to debate the real nature of WW2 and the Stalin question read some non-bourgeois books about those subjects first, ok? You know, books that don't rely on fascist sources to increase death counts to ridiculous figures and don't subscribe to subjective views concerning WW2. I suggest: Another View of Stalin
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Old 05-26-2006, 02:11 PM
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xfactor wrote the most important post in this whole forsaken thread (all political threads end up forsaken anyway : P)
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Old 05-26-2006, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Massoud
Another Stalin apologist. Stalin was a psychotic paranoid who had thousands of imagined enemies executed or worked to death and who caused the starvation deaths of millions of his own citizens when he collectivized farms.

Following the party line is a lame excuse for original thinking, Massoud. Why don't you use the brains you were born with instead of repeating worn-out propaganda?
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