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Signs and Wonders

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  #91  
Old 05-20-2017, 05:42 AM
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(@ Myers) By the term "own god" I mean the expectation that everything in your life will be the product of your own volition and hands.

No, it doesn't exclude dependency on each other - and the term doesn't mean delusions of grandeur - just that you're steering your own ship.

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Old 05-20-2017, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
Hmm. You can't just be a decent human being who derives his wisdom and intuition from the collective wisdom and experience of all the other human beings? It all has to come from a higher power -- or somehow you are your "own god?"

I don't believe in a higher power -- and I am fully aware that I am not self-sufficient, certainly not when it comes my own wellbeing.

Most of that is derived through my relationships and understanding of other human beings. In other words, I realize it's not all about me...
I agree - I think there is an enormous wealth of natural humanity that has love and compassion in abundance for no higher purpose than the love and consideration of others.

Being humble or compassionate or altruistic is not exclusive to religious conviction.
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  #93  
Old 05-20-2017, 05:55 AM
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Myers, how are you getting your smilies to work?
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  #94  
Old 05-20-2017, 05:56 AM
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Oh yeah
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  #95  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
(@ Myers) By the term "own god" I mean the expectation that everything in your life will be the product of your own volition and hands.

No, it doesn't exclude dependency on each other - and the term doesn't mean delusions of grandeur - just that you're steering your own ship.
I've tried steering my own ship -- and I spent most of that time running aground.
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  #96  
Old 05-20-2017, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I've tried steering my own ship -- and I spent most of that time running aground.
Stop showing off with your ship.

I might be clinging to driftwood, but it's my powerful legs kicking this bitch across the ocean...
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  #97  
Old 05-20-2017, 03:32 PM
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Well, you said ship, but it's actually more like a row boat.

And I guess I've figured out that if I just go with the current, life is a hell of a lot easier.

Do you think we've beaten this metaphor to death?

Aye aye, cap'n.
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  #98  
Old 05-20-2017, 03:32 PM
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Or like someone said, "And so we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."

Last edited by Myers; 05-20-2017 at 03:49 PM..
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  #99  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:29 AM
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@myers I do mean the opposite there.

@gabe you cant change someone unless they want to be changed. and its actually not true the conversions didn't take place only with miracles. Simon and Andrew who were his disciples were called to it:

Now as he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the waters: for they were fishers.

And Jesus said unto them: Git yo asses after me and Ill teach ye ta snag some men.

Something like that.

Now herein lies the question you keep asking. What is it that opens men's hearts but I think the question really is why are some men open and others not?
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  #100  
Old 05-21-2017, 01:44 PM
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Noooo Bluey, therein does NOT lie the question I keep asking!

I want to know how you, Monsieur Bleu, would react to a deity appearing amongst us? How d'you think today's society would handle it?

Would you want demonstrable signs and wonders? Would you listen? Would you try and feel a heart connection?

B.P is potentially unimpressed, despite having his terminal illness cured.

Myers is hoping for a healing miracle to get rid of the splinters in his backside from sitting on the fence

I'm anticipating crucifixion by media and rejection from all parties

Moon is waiting for a scientist to verify omniscient credentials

Thoughts? x
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  #101  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:03 PM
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Heh. I don't have any splinters in my backside. It's taking several years of trial and error, but I am mostly content with my place In the universe.

That bit about making the unconscious conscious -- that has a whole lot to do with it.
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  #102  
Old 05-21-2017, 04:22 PM
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@gabe Well Ill say it again that's the wrong question to ask. First off its not about what I want. Look I have whats at my disposal. That's it. My problem with your question is that its an open ended hypothetical with an unlimited number of answers because its without restriction and what has no limit has no definable existence. Were bounded in time that's what makes us who we are. I mean youre asking what it would take why couldn't I just say a deity with x number of attributes and y type of personality and enough access to its being to confirm its transcendental nature. But that doesn't answer anything. Its ok this is what I want. That's useless. Its beyond useless and the question of deities is irrelevant anyways. To me the more fundamental question is whether or not there is meaning. Because gods can be extant and there still be no meaning. Whos to say they aren't nihilistic or whos to say they themselves weren't created. Maybe they transcend this reality but are mundane entities inhabiting a higher ontological plane. Its onanism. I think meaning and god have been conflated for so long that it takes an act of will to divorce the one from the other. Add to that that our universe seems already to possess an unlimited potential for meaning so theres no need to introduce hypothetical beings or principles to justify the existence of a god.

As the saints were being driven from Jackson County in November 1833, several hundred refugees lay on the banks of the Missouri River, many sleeping on the ground under the open sky. They woke around 2 a.m. Nov. 13 to witness one of the most spectacular showers of meteors in recorded history, which has been referred to as “the night the stars fell.” Elder Parley Pratt was there and described it: ‘About two o’clock the next morning we were called up the cry of signs in the heavens. We arose, and to our great astonishment all the firmament seemed enveloped in splendid fireworks, as if every star in the broad expanses had been hurled from its course and sent lawless through the wilds of the ether. Thousands of bright meteors were shooting through space in every direction, with long trains of light following their course. This lasted for several hours and was only closed by the dawn of the rising sun. Every heart was filled with joy at this majestic display of signs and wonders.’

I cant find the original quote, it was of an American lawmaker, but I can paraphrase: If these [the Leonids] be sign of the end let it be that our maker should find us at our tasks.

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  #103  
Old 05-21-2017, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
Myers, how are you getting your smilies to work?
Well, at least a small part of the system is working again...

Knock on wood.....
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If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
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  #104  
Old 05-22-2017, 07:52 PM
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Gab,

Signs & wonders. Connected to the supernatural. The paranormal is flooded with con-artists. Lots of money to be made on grief. Lots of folks willing to pay anything to hear from departed loved. However, if you are able to find an honest medium who will let you sit in at the sťance table, you'll be surprised what will transpire.

You opened your thread with Satya Sai Baba who has been accused of sexual misconduct. I don't know whether the allegations are true or not, but their are so many others without a cloud over their heads. Paramahansa Yogananda was also another Eastern saint capable of performing many miracles. Also unblemished Americans such as Edgar Cayce and Arthur Ford were miracle men. William Gray was one of the greatest healers of the 20th Century. Many British intellectuals (scientists, writers, doctors) were involved with the paranormal at the beginning of the 20th Century.

Good luck with your search for the truth. I do hope you meet the right people who will help you to get to the bottom of your mission (truth) once and for all.
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  #105  
Old 05-22-2017, 08:08 PM
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Florence Marryat wrote a book about Spiritualism in its golden age which was about 1890. Check her out. Also modern women such as Ruth Montgomery (American journalist) and Jane Roberts should point you in the right direction. But the most convincing evidence will have to come from your own senses; therefore, I suggest seeking an honest and legitimate medium who will allow you to sit in at one of his or her sťances.
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  #106  
Old 05-23-2017, 12:54 AM
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Hey CB,

Thanks for your recommendations - all well-charted terrain for me. I can remember reading "Autobiography of a Yogi" many moons ago when I was young, and fell in love with its 'jasmine-scented' pages. A magical book full of rich description of a bygone India.

Paramahansa Yogananda never claimed to be an avatar, which is how he differs greatly from Sai Baba - and he was revered for his purity and enlightenment but not worshipped as an embodiment of God.

Truthfully, this isn't a personal quest - i'm researching a project and needed genuine responses ( in all their diversity) to the concept of a god-power walking the earth in human form. It's extremely difficult to start with a blank canvas because Christianity is so ingrained in my culture - not easy to create a character that isn't unconsciously influenced by Jesus.

I'm not writing satire - it has to be realistic, believable and draw on the tenets of multi-faiths in an intelligent way. Sai Baba offers a compelling unity of faiths, and talked about people being too caught up with "the form" - a need to have a physical representation to worship and have a relationship with - yet the form is transient and no more than an illusion anyway. If you've not read "A Catholic Priest Meets Sai Baba", I recommend it as a superb read - it's been invaluable to me for research and insight.

Thanks for your input x
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  #107  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
Hey CB,

Thanks for your recommendations - all well-charted terrain for me. I can remember reading "Autobiography of a Yogi" many moons ago when I was young, and fell in love with its 'jasmine-scented' pages. A magical book full of rich description of a bygone India.

Paramahansa Yogananda never claimed to be an avatar, which is how he differs greatly from Sai Baba - and he was revered for his purity and enlightenment but not worshipped as an embodiment of God.

Truthfully, this isn't a personal quest - i'm researching a project and needed genuine responses ( in all their diversity) to the concept of a god-power walking the earth in human form. It's extremely difficult to start with a blank canvas because Christianity is so ingrained in my culture - not easy to create a character that isn't unconsciously influenced by Jesus.

I'm not writing satire - it has to be realistic, believable and draw on the tenets of multi-faiths in an intelligent way. Sai Baba offers a compelling unity of faiths, and talked about people being too caught up with "the form" - a need to have a physical representation to worship and have a relationship with - yet the form is transient and no more than an illusion anyway. If you've not read "A Catholic Priest Meets Sai Baba", I recommend it as a superb read - it's been invaluable to me for research and insight.

Thanks for your input x


First off, man is the master manipulator. Where there is money, there will be deceit: Religion, politics, etc. Nothing is spared from con-artists seeking to line their own pockets. You don't start with a blank canvas; you start with a loving heart. Jesus sent his disciples to preach the good news and to heal the sick--and with enthusiasm that is what the early followers did for the sake of obeying God and for helping others. This was long before many people viewed Christianity was as an opportunity get to wealthy. Look before Christianity, Jesus tussled with the crooked temple priests controlling the religion of Judaism during His time. He knew they were scammers--thus, telling his followers to pray behind closed doors, not in a temple where they would only be making crooks wealthier. Look at Islam today. It has become a hijacked religion. Maniacs associating God with killing. Insanity. Power and greed contaminates people--not only in religion but in practically any other field containing large sums of money.

Do you want to find God in yourself--close down your senses! "Be still and know that I am with you" is the universal message to discovering the Great Spirit. You have to do your own leg work; nobody else will be able to help you, not even the holy. The key to unlocking the mystery isn't in any books--the key is within you. Simply, you have to want to reach for it. We are all part of the whole--God (or whatever you choose to call our Creator).

Last edited by Cityboy; 05-23-2017 at 05:24 AM..
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  #108  
Old 05-23-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
First off, man is the master manipulator. Where there is money, there will be deceit: Religion, politics, etc. Nothing is spared from con-artists seeking to line their own pockets. You don't start with a blank canvas; you start with a loving heart. Jesus sent his disciples to preach the good news and to heal the sick--and with enthusiasm that is what the early followers did for the sake of obeying God and for helping others. This was long before many people viewed Christianity was as an opportunity get to wealthy. Look before Christianity, Jesus tussled with the crooked temple priests controlling the religion of Judaism during His time. He knew they were scammers--thus, telling his followers to pray behind closed doors, not in a temple where they would only be making crooks wealthier. Look at Islam today. It has become a hijacked religion. Maniacs associating God with killing. Insanity. Power and greed contaminates people--not only in religion but in practically any other field containing large sums of money.

Do you want to find God in yourself--close down your senses! "Be still and know that I am with you" is the universal message to discovering the Great Spirit. You have to do your own leg work; nobody else will be able to help you, not even the holy. The key to unlocking the mystery isn't in any books--the key is within you. Simply, you have to want to reach for it. We are all part of the whole--God (or whatever you choose to call our Creator).
I don't need to do any soul searching City - i'm entirely at ease in my own pov - I need other people's.

BP has been fantastic so far because he is the ONLY person who has engaged personally with the question and given me some superb dialogue and the basis of a strong character. He's met my questions honestly and head on.

I'll start posting sections of the story soon - I may well find the reactions to it more telling.

Thanks for your input CB - but not quite what i'm after.
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  #109  
Old 05-23-2017, 12:20 PM
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Looking forward to it.
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:48 PM
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Gab,

You stated if "someone walked the earth producing the miraculous." Well, they are already walking amongst us. Tens of thousands doing what you deem as a miracle but what they deem as an ordinary feat.

I'm not suggesting anything about "soul searching." We are all too grown up for that "phrase," which was probably popularized in the hippie era in horoscope magazines.

Also, I would be reluctant to use the term "we." When you do, you're handing over your own identity--your uniqueness--to the multitudes. That's a no-no. Don't want to sound preachy. Just trying to understand your post.

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Old 05-23-2017, 09:14 PM
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As long as you use: "that fucker better bring it!" I'll be happy.
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  #112  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
As long as you use: "that fucker better bring it!" I'll be happy.
Keeping that gem for the title....
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Old 05-24-2017, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Grace Gabriel View Post
So, my question is not debating religion, or subscribing to any particular belief system. It does not invite that either.

In our age of cynicism and trial by media, how would we react to someone claiming divinity and producing the miraculous?

The most recent example I can think of is Sri Sathya Sai Baba - who was slated in various documentaries as allegedly being a trickster and rumours abounded of sexual misconduct. There are still millions who benefit from his benevolence and a legion of followers who give testimony to healing miracles and a plethora of signs and wonders.

If somebody walked the Earth today that had powers and wisdom beyond human comprehension - would we crucify them by media?

Would we listen?

Would we reject them, because it wasn't the god we were expecting?

Or are we our own gods now - so convinced of our intelligence that to respond with anything else but ridicule or cynicism would make us feel gullible?
The answer to your question is simple. Have you ever been healed? If so, you wouldn't have to worry about anybody else's reaction or cynicism. You'd know for certain and be darned happy too.

Mr. William Grey, a resident of Sacramento, California was probably the greatest healer of the 20th Century. Yet, he had no religious affiliations. Naturally, Mr. Grey didn't do the healing himself, but he was highly skilled at harnessing the energy (available to all of us) and using it to heal others. He used this "miraculous" energy to recharge the magnetic fields surrounding both the physical and spiritual bodies of the people whom he was healing. Had anyone called him a god for his skill, Mr. Grey would have probably laughed at the person.

I was in the presence of a Catholic priest who also possessed this remarkable talent (like writing, the more it is practiced, the better one becomes at it). The energy emanating from his outstretched palm nearly knocked me off my feet. Though I clearly felt the force of the energy, the effect it had on my aching shoulder was only temporary. "Energy healing" usually requires a series of treatments to permanently restore a body part to a healthy state. Nowadays, many energy healers may be found in Spiritualist churches because they fear being sued. As in any other field, there are the legit and the fraudulent healers. People who charge a fee (especially a high one) are usually scammers. Legit healers ask for small donations or volunteer their services.


I may have misunderstood your question. If so, please accept my apologies for posting all this stuff. "Misunderstanding" and "dishonesty" are entirely different breeds. If my words have taken a wrong turn, do forgive me. It wasn't done intentionally. Hope all is well in your backyard. Terrible what has happened.

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