WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table

The Intellectual Table Discussions on political topics, social issues, current affairs, etc.


Faith versus God

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-20-2017, 04:44 AM
Nacia's Avatar
Nacia (Offline)
Legend
Official Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: London, England.
Posts: 9,636
Thanks: 2,233
Thanks 883
Icon3 Faith versus God


is faith stronger and more relevant then god and religion?

for example:

I can have faith in myself or a friend because I believe their friendship has worth in time of needs
or
take a convert
he or she switches religion because he or she develop a faith that convinces them one religion is better then the other.
it is not about god but about the belief a conviction that one thing is better then the other.

faith is more update and more relevant then religion in this cases and many more.
do you agree?

__________________
the world is a school
so big you could fool a ruler for a cooler
and each city is a classroom
you could be in an air loom to last you to the moon
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nacia For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (06-21-2017)
  #2  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:51 AM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 1,312
Thanks 377
Default

Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
is faith stronger and more relevant then god and religion?

for example:

I can have faith in myself or a friend because I believe their friendship has worth in time of needs
or
take a convert
he or she switches religion because he or she develop a faith that convinces them one religion is better then the other.
it is not about god but about the belief a conviction that one thing is better then the other.

faith is more update and more relevant then religion in this cases and many more.
do you agree?
Interesting question, and, is faith risk?
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-21-2017, 04:29 AM
Nacia's Avatar
Nacia (Offline)
Legend
Official Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: London, England.
Posts: 9,636
Thanks: 2,233
Thanks 883
Default

Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Interesting question, and, is faith risk?
risk??
__________________
the world is a school
so big you could fool a ruler for a cooler
and each city is a classroom
you could be in an air loom to last you to the moon
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nacia For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (06-22-2017)
  #4  
Old 06-21-2017, 07:14 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,634
Thanks: 198
Thanks 690
Default

You might say faith is akin to risk assessment for all non-absolutes.

That which builds up a strong currency of risk should in turn draw little faith. Risk of England losing at football very high... therefore little faith in them. A spectrum then could be drawn between those who have faith in everything and therefore take all kinds of risks and those who have no faith in anything and are therefore risk averse. Faith and risk in this way are two major underpinnings of human action.

Hi Nacia!
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JohnConstantine For This Useful Post:
Nacia (06-21-2017), PickleBottom (06-22-2017)
  #5  
Old 06-22-2017, 12:11 AM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 1,312
Thanks 377
Default

Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
risk??
Yes, what JC said!
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-22-2017, 06:19 AM
CandraH
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Havent read the other replies but in a random thought response, yes, "faith" is much stronger than just religion. People in general are hard wired to "believe in" things so I think that probably came first, then structured religions/cults etc were created afterwards.

Its also interesting to watch people who extricate themselves from one religion only to find themselves caught up in a different one. Or just believing in something or other because thats the type of person they are. Thinking of my mum here, who was raised catholic, got out of that but ended up becoming buddhist. It seems like she cant escape her believer conditioning so she cant go through life without it in some form or other.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-23-2017, 02:12 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,634
Thanks: 198
Thanks 690
Default

Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
Havent read the other replies but in a random thought response, yes, "faith" is much stronger than just religion. People in general are hard wired to "believe in" things so I think that probably came first, then structured religions/cults etc were created afterwards.

Its also interesting to watch people who extricate themselves from one religion only to find themselves caught up in a different one. Or just believing in something or other because thats the type of person they are. Thinking of my mum here, who was raised catholic, got out of that but ended up becoming buddhist. It seems like she cant escape her believer conditioning so she cant go through life without it in some form or other.

Yeah or like... when nations gave up on God and started worshipping the state, North Korea is supposed to be atheist...

I had the perfect amount of Thanks until you came along
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-23-2017, 08:00 AM
Jay's Avatar
Jay (Offline)
Grizzled Veteran
Loyal Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Louisiana USA
Posts: 4,233
Thanks: 2
Thanks 23
Default

I love the word faith. While many have associated it with religions, it can also be associated in sciences, philosophies, etc.

Many people put faith in the works of a naturalist that failed out of medical school, with his professors saying he has very weak in sciences and maths, but was very strong in theology and philosophy. His successful formal education came from being an ordained minister, after completing seminary college. This minister gets on a boat ride and goes around the world writing down observable traits of various fauna. His books regarding his interpretation of these observation eventually get known as the concept of faith. Hmmm. An ordained minster helping with the concept of evolution. Did he help create a new manmade faith system?

Now the word debates the two types of faith. Some are adamant that there is an unseen deity that created everything. Some are adamant that we are the high form of the evolutionary process. Some like both, and merge the some. No matter which science/philosophy one supports are not supports, they both take faith.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jay For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (06-24-2017)
  #9  
Old 06-23-2017, 08:13 AM
Mohican's Avatar
Mohican (Offline)
Tall Poppy
Administration
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Not quite back of beyond
Posts: 3,837
Thanks: 330
Thanks 651
Default

Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
is faith stronger and more relevant then god and religion?
God - Father/Son/Holy Spirit is the top for me. My faith is based on my belief.


Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
for example:

I can have faith in myself or a friend because I believe their friendship has worth in time of needs
This faith involves trust. Or at the least very strong hope.


Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
or
take a convert
he or she switches religion because he or she develop a faith that convinces them one religion is better then the other.
it is not about god but about the belief a conviction that one thing is better then the other.

faith is more update and more relevant then religion in this cases and many more.
do you agree?
If someone switches religions then either their faith was weak, or perhaps something they believed in proved false, or some combination.
__________________
If you surrender a civilization to avoid social disapproval, you should know that all of history will curse you for your cowardliness - Alice Teller

If John of Patmos would browse the internet today for half an hour, I don't know if the Book of Revelations would be entirely different or entirely the same.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-24-2017, 03:31 AM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 1,312
Thanks 377
Default

Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I love the word faith. While many have associated it with religions, it can also be associated in sciences, philosophies, etc.

Many people put faith in the works of a naturalist that failed out of medical school, with his professors saying he has very weak in sciences and maths, but was very strong in theology and philosophy. His successful formal education came from being an ordained minister, after completing seminary college. This minister gets on a boat ride and goes around the world writing down observable traits of various fauna. His books regarding his interpretation of these observation eventually get known as the concept of faith. Hmmm. An ordained minster helping with the concept of evolution. Did he help create a new manmade faith system?

Now the word debates the two types of faith. Some are adamant that there is an unseen deity that created everything. Some are adamant that we are the high form of the evolutionary process. Some like both, and merge the some. No matter which science/philosophy one supports are not supports, they both take faith.
Perhaps degrees of faith/risk/probability/uncertainty?

Suppose there is a probability that my DNA is more similar to your DNA, than your parents DNA is to your DNA, that is, there is a probability that I am more closely related to you than you are to your parents. Would you therefore accept that I am indeed more closely related to you than you are to your parents? Or would you presume you are more closely related to your parents on your knowledge of DNA, meiosis etc, or would you believe you are more closely related to your parents based on "faith", or would you insist on a DNA test?
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-24-2017, 07:34 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Online)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,725
Thanks: 337
Thanks 352
Default

I don't really think in terms of faith.

I have reasonable exceptions based on experience and what I currently believe is true -- and I have to have some kind of evidence for the latter.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-25-2017, 01:24 PM
CandraH
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine View Post
Yeah or like... when nations gave up on God and started worshipping the state, North Korea is supposed to be atheist...

I had the perfect amount of Thanks until you came along
Thats interesting about North Korea being atheist. I didnt know that. But speaking of North Korea, I watched a video recently of a girl from there talking about some of the horrors she dealt with living there and trying to get out. Here's a link in case anyone wants to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufhKWfPSQOw&t=42s

Your comment also put me in mind of a film I watched about German kids trying to survive in post WWII Germany. It was really interesting to think about things from their point of view, how they'd come to believe the hype and propoganda sold to them by the nazis about Jews and the Allied nations etc. It was also interesting to think that a lot of people in Germany worshipped Hitler like a god or father figure and that ties back into what you were saying about people worshipping the state. It really does show how people are wired to worship and will believe fucking anything if it suits their spiritual needs at the time.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (06-25-2017)
  #13  
Old 06-25-2017, 02:04 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,833
Thanks: 360
Thanks 846
Default

Most communist countries do or have practiced state atheism.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-25-2017, 07:59 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 1,312
Thanks 377
Default

Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
Thats interesting about North Korea being atheist. I didnt know that. But speaking of North Korea, I watched a video recently of a girl from there talking about some of the horrors she dealt with living there and trying to get out. Here's a link in case anyone wants to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufhKWfPSQOw&t=42s

Your comment also put me in mind of a film I watched about German kids trying to survive in post WWII Germany. It was really interesting to think about things from their point of view, how they'd come to believe the hype and propoganda sold to them by the nazis about Jews and the Allied nations etc. It was also interesting to think that a lot of people in Germany worshipped Hitler like a god or father figure and that ties back into what you were saying about people worshipping the state. It really does show how people are wired to worship and will believe fucking anything if it suits their spiritual needs at the time.
It boils down to Group Dynamics, religion, politics, social, various miscellaneous ideologies. There are a few key aspects;

1) The in-group by having/following their ideology have characteristics that make them "good"
2) The out-group by not having/following the in-group ideology have characteristics that make them "evil"

It is very Zoroastrian.
But anywho, give 1) power over 2) and 2) are fucked.

We are all monkeys Candra, in the denigrative sense, when a person views the outcome of an ideology, whether it be capitalism, communism, Christianity, and how this is manifested at the top of the human hierarchy and you invariably find monkeys flinging shit at each other. Below this you have the various supporter subordinate "us" monkeys agreeing it was the "them" monkeys who started it.
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PickleBottom For This Useful Post:
brianpatrick (06-25-2017)
  #15  
Old 06-25-2017, 08:59 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,833
Thanks: 360
Thanks 846
Default

Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
It boils down to Group Dynamics, religion, politics, social, various miscellaneous ideologies. There are a few key aspects;



1) The in-group by having/following their ideology have characteristics that make them "good"

2) The out-group by not having/following the in-group ideology have characteristics that make them "evil"



It is very Zoroastrian.

But anywho, give 1) power over 2) and 2) are fucked.



We are all monkeys Candra, in the denigrative sense, when a person views the outcome of an ideology, whether it be capitalism, communism, Christianity, and how this is manifested at the top of the human hierarchy and you invariably find monkeys flinging shit at each other. Below this you have the various supporter subordinate "us" monkeys agreeing it was the "them" monkeys who started it.


You also have a few wise monkey's who see all the crap and don't want anything to do with the 'us' or 'them' monkey's. They philosophize, paint, write, and perform various anti-social acts and then die without passing on a significant number of their genes. Or worse, they get crucified and somebody starts a religion or a movement that becomes part of the 'us' or 'them' paradox. Fucking monkey's.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-26-2017, 01:35 AM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 1,312
Thanks 377
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
You also have a few wise monkey's who see all the crap and don't want anything to do with the 'us' or 'them' monkey's. They philosophize, paint, write, and perform various anti-social acts and then die without passing on a significant number of their genes. Or worse, they get crucified and somebody starts a religion or a movement that becomes part of the 'us' or 'them' paradox. Fucking monkey's.
Yep, you have the truth of it, the function to describe this is as follows;

For any idea X proposed there is a hierarchical system that will transform it by the following function;

F(x) = cunt(X) * douchebaggery * the square of the speed of light
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PickleBottom For This Useful Post:
brianpatrick (06-27-2017)
  #17  
Old 06-26-2017, 08:35 AM
CandraH
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Most communist countries do or have practiced state atheism.
Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
We are all monkeys Candra
Tell me something I don't know.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (06-26-2017)
  #18  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:51 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 1,312
Thanks 377
Default

Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
Tell me something I don't know.
Well! Did you know that Evan from HR has been kissing Becky the Underling Executive Assistant? Yep! I caught them the other day. You see I don't like using the peasant toilet so I usually use the boss's toilet (about 4 or so people down from the big boss but a boss nonetheless), so anywho, I was in the toilet on the third of my bosses weekly golf days and when I left, I peeked through the glass window on his door, and saw them together in the bosses office!
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-27-2017, 05:19 AM
CandraH
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lol, nice anecdote.

Interestingly, you seem as confused as me about how to spell the possessive of boss. My old brain tells me it should be boss's but I know thats probably wrong and it's bosses, but I just cant get my head round it. That'll be what 25 years away from school does to learning...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (06-27-2017)
  #20  
Old 06-27-2017, 06:21 AM
JohnConstantine's Avatar
JohnConstantine (Offline)
Verbosity Pales
Official Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,634
Thanks: 198
Thanks 690
Default

Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
It really does show how people are wired to worship and will believe fucking anything if it suits their spiritual needs at the time.
Yeah creed is mostly a geographical and chronological accident. I mean, if you were a Christian in America BEFORE Europeans turned up then fine, I'd say you have a direct conduit with God.

I'm dating a woman from Zimbabwe atm and a while back she was having a dig at the Catholic church. I was more-or-less on board. But I also mentioned that the likelihood is that she wouldn't be a Christian without them. No Catholic church, no conversion of Europe, no mission in Africa, or specifically Rhodesia... Africa remains an assortment of pagan beliefs. I expected a lot of push back but she took it quite well.
__________________
I don't want any gay people hanging around me while I'm trying to kill kids.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JohnConstantine For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (06-27-2017)
  #21  
Old 06-27-2017, 03:49 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Heartbreaking Writer of Staggering Genius
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 1,312
Thanks 377
Default

Originally Posted by CandraH View Post
Lol, nice anecdote.

Interestingly, you seem as confused as me about how to spell the possessive of boss. My old brain tells me it should be boss's but I know thats probably wrong and it's bosses, but I just cant get my head round it. That'll be what 25 years away from school does to learning...
Ah yes the possessive apostrophe, I don't like using the possessive apostrophe when I talk about the bosses. Else I would be all like, Boss's PickleBottom!

__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fact vs Faith: You canít have both. Choose one. wrc The Intellectual Table 59 09-02-2016 09:16 PM
the poor versus the rich will they ever bridge the gap? Nacia Writers' Cafe 11 07-07-2015 06:23 AM
moral versus legal Nacia Free Writing 0 07-29-2014 12:44 PM
Faith universe_portal Non-Fiction 2 02-26-2014 06:01 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:05 PM.

vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.