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Has the south just got bigger? (CalExit)

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  #1  
Old 11-09-2016, 02:49 AM
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Default Has the south just got bigger? (CalExit)


Apparently a few celebrities et al threatened to flee to Canada if Trump were voted in.

And this may just be a rumour (can't be bothered to check it out) but the Canadian immigration website crashed post-Trump victory.

Here's a few questions;
1) Should Canada build a wall?
2) Will the job and house vacancies in the US cause the Trump government to encourage Mexicans to enter the US?
3) Is this a north-south secession Mohican has being praying for?
4) Will only the affluent people make the trip leaving recipients of welfare under the care of the new south?

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Old 11-09-2016, 06:29 AM
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Some of these very same celebrities threatened to move if Bush II was elected and then re-elected, yet they still stain us with their presence.

Why would Canada build a wall? These people for one would be going through a LEGAL process, unlike the illegal immigrants coming across the southern border.

No states have seceded yet.

The likelyhood of a "New South" is small unless we could be cut asunder from the New England Jacobins.
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Some of these very same celebrities threatened to move if Bush II was elected and then re-elected, yet they still stain us with their presence.

Why would Canada build a wall? These people for one would be going through a LEGAL process, unlike the illegal immigrants coming across the southern border.

No states have seceded yet.

The likelyhood of a "New South" is small unless we could be cut asunder from the New England Jacobins.
Wouldn't Clinton need to move? Maybe to an Ecuadorean embassy?
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:59 PM
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Further to this I wonder whether Trump will pardon Assange and that FBI guy?

Also w.r.t. the south getting bigger, if affluent people move to an area, the house prices, for example, increase, making it less affordable for the natives to live there, so even though they are legally trying to enter another country they do not have the best interests of the locals?
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:17 PM
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Apparently California wants out
http://abc7.com/news/anti-trump-prot...sults/1597889/
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
1) Should Canada build a wall?
A wall 5,500 miles long. A wall where it can be dawn at one end and noon at the other. Good Lord. There's a science fiction short story on a platter, if anyone's inclined.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
A wall 5,500 miles long. A wall where it can be dawn at one end and noon at the other. Good Lord. There's a science fiction short story on a platter, if anyone's inclined.
And can be seen from space!
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Old 11-10-2016, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post

That's been brewing for a while. If they did, I would be of a mind to let them go peacefully.
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Old 11-10-2016, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
That's been brewing for a while. If they did, I would be of a mind to let them go peacefully.
Just give it a few million years and parts of California will go peacefully due to the San Andreas fault line.
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Old 11-11-2016, 08:16 PM
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A secession measure was put on the ballot in Oregon (Thursday) but was just as quickly withdrawn The group in California beating the drum for secession are thinking of borrowing from the Oregon Secession language

I think people would be on board with peacefully letting Oregon and California secede. I don't see a clamor to retain them by force if they wanted to leave
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Old 11-11-2016, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
A secession measure was put on the ballot in Oregon (Thursday) but was just as quickly withdrawn The group in California beating the drum for secession are thinking of borrowing from the Oregon Secession language

I think people would be on board with peacefully letting Oregon and California secede. I don't see a clamor to retain them by force if they wanted to leave
Apparently all the rich celebrities who threatened to leave aren't going to keep their election promise
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Old 11-11-2016, 08:53 PM
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This chart injects some amusing points into secession discussion.

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Old 11-11-2016, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
This chart injects some amusing points into secession discussion.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I'm surprised to see DC so high, how are these figures calculated?
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Old 11-12-2016, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I'm surprised to see DC so high, how are these figures calculated?
That's Federal Dollars received versus dollars sent to Sodom On The Potomac via taxes.

South Carolina has a fair amount of people that talk about secession - and they were the first to secede from Great Britain and the first to secede from the United States. So it's slightly possible that they secede. The chart shows that they receive eight dollars back from the Federal Government for every dollar they sent to Sodom on the Potomac. Opposite of their Ante Bellum situation. So they have a heavy financial reason to stay.

There's a secession movement in Alabama - but notice they receive more than three dollars back for every dollar paid in.

These numbers are deceiving - especially in the south because of the amount of military bases are a large part of the money spent but it is something to account for.

On the other hand, Oregon receives just a bit more then they send and California sends a bit more than they receive so financially they could cut ties. (Except for California's heavy, heavy state debt)
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:35 AM
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Which raises an interesting question. When a new state is created via secession do they take on a share of their parent state's debts? And if so in what proportion?

(Should Her Majesty's government send the USA an invoice for their share of the British national debt in 1776 plus interest?)
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
That's Federal Dollars received versus dollars sent to Sodom On The Potomac via taxes.

South Carolina has a fair amount of people that talk about secession - and they were the first to secede from Great Britain and the first to secede from the United States. So it's slightly possible that they secede. The chart shows that they receive eight dollars back from the Federal Government for every dollar they sent to Sodom on the Potomac. Opposite of their Ante Bellum situation. So they have a heavy financial reason to stay.

There's a secession movement in Alabama - but notice they receive more than three dollars back for every dollar paid in.

These numbers are deceiving - especially in the south because of the amount of military bases are a large part of the money spent but it is something to account for.

On the other hand, Oregon receives just a bit more then they send and California sends a bit more than they receive so financially they could cut ties. (Except for California's heavy, heavy state debt)
Maybe that is why DC is not showing an expected value because they have the federal reserve printing money
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
Which raises an interesting question. When a new state is created via secession do they take on a share of their parent state's debts? And if so in what proportion?

(Should Her Majesty's government send the USA an invoice for their share of the British national debt in 1776 plus interest?)

and then we can send Her Majesty a bill for services rendered twice in the 1900s to allow England to remain an English speaking nation.

To be honest, a large amount of the taxes The King (actually Parliament) were levying were to recoup costs from the Seven Years War or French - Indian wars. That cost was a big drain on royal coffers. The irony is the tax rate on colonist was small. But taxes were one of a million complaints listed on the Secession Document Penned by Thomas Jefferson......
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
and then we can send Her Majesty a bill for services rendered twice in the 1900s to allow England to remain an English speaking nation.
We paid lend/lease back at the agreed rate with the agreed interest. Final instalment was in 2006.

You lot'll forgive any tinpot dictatorship their debts if they've built a dam or a bridge, or bought a few million dollars worth of attack helicopters, with American money. But Her Majesty's government pays its dues.
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:13 AM
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There were a lot of private small arms donated as part of the lend lease program that never made it back. Pity that, some of them have turned quite valuable over the years.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:37 AM
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I did a lot of thinking about this back in 2014 when it looked like Scotland might secede. In the US the most likely candidate is probably Texas.

Isn't it right that a departing state takes part of our national debt with them when they go?
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Old 11-14-2016, 10:11 AM
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The charter aka the Constitution is silent about secession so that could end up negotiated.

To me it would be more likely for the US vs a State to look at Federal Holdings ie federal building, military bases, etc and go from there.

Texas is a 1:1 or perhaps a recipient state now, but I believe it had a run for a while as a "donor state". So if the nation wanted payback for part of the national debt it might not be as easy as "Your X percent of the population so we'll charge you X percent time twenty trillion plus x percent times the six trillion that Social Security lost.

Plus, I think a figure would have to be arranged for selling the Bush family back to the nation.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:20 PM
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I'd give you 2.15 and a packet of peanuts for them.
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Non Serviam View Post
I'd give you 2.15 and a packet of peanuts for them.
What does that equal in Yuan?
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Old 11-23-2016, 03:55 PM
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The California secession has been put on the California ballot.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:29 AM
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To the thread title:

California seceding is not equal to the south getting bigger, unless you think that minus California the Souths population relative to the rest of the (once union) nation.

A California secession would be for different reasons than southern states seceding.
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Old 01-29-2017, 05:02 PM
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California is now threatening to not forward taxes to the Federal Government.

They are also close (as of Friday 27Jan2017) to reaching the amount of signatures to put the secession measure on the ballot.

If they secede, being an engineer involved in desalinization or buying stock in desalinization would be a good move....

And perhaps it would further drive the people of the northern part of the state to breaking away from the urban south.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:00 PM
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Maybe their hatred of Trump will put the movement over the top.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:42 PM
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Cal Exit is on hold, at least for the moment. The main mover and shaker of Cal Exit has been found to have....Russian Ties ....and he hates tRUMP.....

Is there any Shadenfraude, with a topping of irony to be found in these events? Especially if the founder of CalExit expats to Russia to pal around with Putin and Assad?

Even with the head guy bugging out, others declare that they will not give up the ship.
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
California is now threatening to not forward taxes to the Federal Government.

They are also close (as of Friday 27Jan2017) to reaching the amount of signatures to put the secession measure on the ballot.

If they secede, being an engineer involved in desalinization or buying stock in desalinization would be a good move....

And perhaps it would further drive the people of the northern part of the state to breaking away from the urban south.
Humboldt County has always considered itself to barely be a part of the U.S., anyway ( a popular bumper sticker up here says, "U.S. out of Humboldt County"), but a secession from the union would probably have a majority voting to stay. Liberals control most of the politics around here, but mainly because we let them, and I think a vote on secession would bring a lot of people out of the woodwork to vote against it.

And yeah, if they couldn't take our water, SoCal would be putting themselves into an uncomfortable position, one where those desalinization experts would be in high demand.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:55 PM
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Zogby ran a poll over Labor Day Weekend (2017)

People in the US are trending more toward secession.

1 in 3 (that's 33%, Brian) still hold a Lincolnesque view that seceding states should be brought back into the fold.

The overall amount of people supporting secession has grown from 1 in 4 (that's 25%, Brian) to 4 in 10 (40%)

The remaining approx 27% are undecided or on the fene.

More people prefer secession to staying in the union.

Going by memory of the article I read, the South leads percentages of people who want to secede, followed by California and then other coastal areas. The MidWest region has the lowest support for secession at 25%.

In age demographics millenials lead the secession crowd, with the least support by baby boomers.

Where secession was typically something that simmers in the South, (and in Maine) it has spread.
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