Basic Rights

[Myers]

Originally Posted by Mohican

The inferior man argues about his rights, while the superior man imposes duties upon himself - Wagner Clemente Soto

What rights is he talking about?

And why would those two things be mutually exclusive?

This is the kind of pithy little saying that can seem profound for about a nanosecond...

[Mohican]

Originally Posted by Mohican The inferior man argues about his rights, while the superior man imposes duties upon himself - Wagner Clemente Soto

Originally Posted by Myers

What rights is he talking about?

whatever "rights" inferior men claim for themselves.

Originally Posted by Myers

And why would those two things be mutually exclusive?

I don't see the statement as mutually exclusive, Soto's heavy emphasis is on duty. I can where a person that's heavy on the "rights" side and light on the duty side would make this assumption.

Originally Posted by Myers

This is the kind of pithy little saying that can seem profound for about a nanosecond...

Dismiss at your leisure.

[chat bot]

let's say rights are for all the basics. what do you guys see about freedom? is it something you know enough to write a poem about?

[PickleBottom]

Originally Posted by chat bot

let's say rights are for all the basics. what do you guys see about freedom? is it something you know enough to write a poem about?

I wouldn't be able to write a poem even if I could adequately express freedom, the problem with the word freedom is everybody knows what it should be but when it comes to putting this in practice some people will benefit from this exercise and therefore other people will lose freedom.

[JohnConstantine]

Freedom is the ability to say 2 + 2 = 4.

Or, free expression, without the threat of force. Force and coercion are the antithesis.

So Galileo can say the earth isn't the centre of the universe, or whatever he said, without being incarcerated.

That's basically it. But aside from a principle upheld by society, you'd probably then want to look at the constraints of culture and whether they are conducive towards or actually inhibit freedoms -- y'know if you wanna get technical and philosophic.

Part of growing up is certainly to diminish your own freedoms purposefully. Discipline and deferred gratification for example are self imposed constraints upon freedoms which don't really occur to a child. I think that might be what Wagner is getting at.

[Myers]

Originally Posted by chat bot

let's say rights are for all the basics. what do you guys see about freedom? is it something you know enough to write a poem about?

Freedom

I'm as happy as can be.
I flew the coup and now I'm free.

Free to climb the tallest tree
or eat some honey from the bee

or sail upon the deep blue see
or take my gun on a shooting spree

or eat some crackers spread with brie
or play the banjo on my knee.

See how happy you could be—
unlock the door and toss the key.

I think that I could never be
so happy, if I wasn't free!

[chat bot]

that's brilliant, @myers. not chunky and really pretty! you should have it moved for critiques...

[eripiomundus]

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine

Freedom is the ability to say 2 + 2 = 4.

Or, free expression, without the threat of force. Force and coercion are the antithesis.

So Galileo can say the earth isn't the centre of the universe, or whatever he said, without being incarcerated.

That's basically it. But aside from a principle upheld by society, you'd probably then want to look at the constraints of culture and whether they are conducive towards or actually inhibit freedoms -- y'know if you wanna get technical and philosophic.

Part of growing up is certainly to diminish your own freedoms purposefully. Discipline and deferred gratification for example are self imposed constraints upon freedoms which don't really occur to a child. I think that might be what Wagner is getting at.

I tend to think we have only the illusion of freedom. We are ultimately a set of genes (unchosen by us) acted upon by experience. When we're babies we don't choose what experiences we will be imprinted by. Our primary caregivers do that. So the genes and experiences that culminate in say a four-year-old-you are all unchosen. You have to ask, how is it that you can make a "free" choice independant of your genetic predisposition and experiential conditioning?

By the time you're old enough to make your first "free choice" you've been conditioned to choose a certain way, and even if you say to yourself: "I feel like choosing X, but to be different I'll go with Y", it was your conditioning that caused you to change your mind - something in your past that taught you to question your first inclination and go for something else. You can never really make a free choice.

[Mohican]

You're free to make all kinds of choices if you are willing to live with the consequences.

[brianpatrick]

Originally Posted by Mohican

You're free to make all kinds of choices if you are willing to live with the consequences.

I think you're talking around E.

And very few of us on the planet are making free choices.

[Grace Gabriel]

Originally Posted by chat bot

that's brilliant, @myers. not chunky and really pretty! you should have it moved for critiques...

I worry about literary chunkiness.


Babe?

Does my verse look big in this poem?

[Prodigalson]

Honey, your verse looks good in any poem.

[Grace Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Prodigalson

Honey, your verse looks good in any poem.

Prod, your marriage will last forever.