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How can my villain rat on someone, without ratting himself out in this case?

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Old 01-14-2016, 01:43 AM
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Default How can my villain rat on someone, without ratting himself out in this case?


In my story, the villains find out that the MC (a cop), is coming after them out of revenge, along with a few other cops, who want revenge on the villains since the villains killed a cop they work with.

The villains got away with it, so a few cops form an angry lynch mob, and go after him.

However, the cop that the villains killed was a mole, working for them, and the cops wanting to avenge their fallen officer, do not know that he was. The villains figure that they will tell the vengeful cops that their fallen friend was actually 'one of them', the whole time, and he was killed whilst working for them.

The reason why the villains want to tell the cops this is because there is a good chance it will deter the cops from wanting to kill them out of revenge. If the cops find out that their fallen friend was a mole working for the gang, the whole time, they will feel dishonored by their fallen friend, and therefore not want to avenge him. They wouldn't feel that he was worth avenging if he was one of the gang.

So the villains figure that the cops will not kill them, if they can prove to the cops that their fallen friend was one of them.

However, how would the villains go about doing it, but at the same time, not leave enough of a trail of evidence that would lead back to them? They have to implicate the dead officer in being part of their crimes, without incriminating themselves, legally.

Perhaps they can incriminate themselves but since they were giving the information to cops who they suspected where likely going to kill them, the evidence can be deemed inadmissible since it was given to the cops under threat, and the villains know this, so they are willing to risk incriminating themselves in order to not be killed by the vengeful cops?

Or I can write it so that they simply are able to rat out their dead mole, without ratting themselves out in the process. But is their anyway they can do this?

As far as the proof of the mole's collusion, I do not know what proof the gang would have to deliver to the vengeful cops. I need to figure out how they cannot rat themselves out in the process, before I figure out the type of proof, they would have to give, if that makes sense.

Does anyone have ideas as to how they could prove the mole's collusion without ratting themselves out directly, evidence wise? The gang figures that even though proving to the officers that their friend was a mole, may not deter all of them wanting to kill the gang, it's still worth a shot to try, compared to having killer cops after you.

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Old 01-16-2016, 10:44 AM
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A couple of ideas, shooting from the hip:

Could something me mailed anonymously or evidence left somewhere? A note this person wrote incriminating himself. A tape of his voice saying something to give him away? Wouldn't even have to come out say what crime gang he belonged to, just cast a shadow on his innocence.

How sinister are your villains? Would they force someone to make an anonymous phone call ratting him out and then take care of the evidence? Might throw a different puzzle to solve at the cops with a suspicious suicide to investigate.

Are there any in-betweens, a person who knows someone from each group unprofessionally who can be coerced and so be forced to get involved in something he probably wants no part of.

Could they leak information to the media who does a story about a dirty cop?
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Raserei View Post
A couple of ideas, shooting from the hip:

Could something me mailed anonymously or evidence left somewhere? A note this person wrote incriminating himself. A tape of his voice saying something to give him away? Wouldn't even have to come out say what crime gang he belonged to, just cast a shadow on his innocence.

How sinister are your villains? Would they force someone to make an anonymous phone call ratting him out and then take care of the evidence? Might throw a different puzzle to solve at the cops with a suspicious suicide to investigate.

Are there any in-betweens, a person who knows someone from each group unprofessionally who can be coerced and so be forced to get involved in something he probably wants no part of.

Could they leak information to the media who does a story about a dirty cop?
Well I think that an anonymous call would be enough to prove to the vengeful cops that their friend was most definitely involved. An anonymous call, will probably be seen as a desperate trick to try to get the vengeful cops to back off.

Earlier in the story, the dead cop (when he was alive), admits to his therapist, some crimes he was involved in, under confidentiality. Perhaps the therapist could tape it, and the gang could get their hands on the tape, and edit out the part, where they are implicated, but leave all the rest in, where the cop implicates himself?

However, would the vengeful cops think that the tape has been fabricated if parts were obviously edited out?

There is also no characters I have so far who be can coerced to be part of the group's plan but even if there was, how would that help prove that the dead cop was in collusion with them, exactly?

Last edited by ironpony; 01-16-2016 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 01-16-2016, 12:46 PM
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Question for you, iron pony . . . I'm curious. Are all of these questions that you pose here in Writing Help and Issues all for the same story, or various stories you're working on?
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Old 01-16-2016, 12:49 PM
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It's variations on the same premise. I have written several outlines as to how the story can go, and it's matter of picking the best outline, which I am having trouble with.

Like I will ask about a certain scenario or section of the story, but if others agree that it doesn't work, then I will come up with something else, and then see.
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Old 01-16-2016, 04:05 PM
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Like I said, shooting from the hip. Only you know the characters and "world" to know if anything could be viable. I like the therapist idea. Maybe he had notes? Would want to be careful not to incriminate him though, or would you?
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:54 PM
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The therapist is part of the gang, so he would not want to be incriminated. They can have a video of him talking to therapist about his crimes maybe, but I would have to have it so that the therapist is not implicated along side with him. Not sure if that would work cause the therapist would not want to record that part.

Earlier in the story, the leader of the gang is talking to the crooked cop on the phone, and they are talking about their crime they are going to commit. The leader can be talking through a voice scrambling device to disguise his voice, over the phone, in case anyone is listening.

The leader could record the conversation then and use that later, as proof. However, I do not have a reason for the leader to record such a conversation before, so will the reader buy it, if he recorded it for no real reason at that time?

Last edited by ironpony; 01-16-2016 at 10:58 PM..
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:09 AM
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Ponyboy, have you ever considered working things out for yourself? If your book ever gets published are you going to give co-author credits to everyone who solved a problem for you?

I noticed as well tnat your askig all the same questions on another writing forum, which must mean you don trust people here to give you the right aswers
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:04 PM
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I was wondering the same thing. It's one thing to research the law to find out what will work and what won't; it's another thing to ask others to come up with your plot. I was enjoying helping with some of your first questions but it seems you are asking us to write your book for you.

I'm out.
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Old 01-19-2016, 11:48 PM
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Sorry, you're right. I just wasn't sure if the idea was plausible or made logical sense.

So I feel sometimes that I could use others to give me a more objective analysis, since it's difficult for me to be objective about my own work.
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:31 AM
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It's difficult for everyone, but I think it's better to ask opinions based on something you've actually written. Context is everything.
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:45 AM
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its difficult for all of us. But the best thing to do is to write it as you see it, often you'll spot your own issues and wont need any help, other times at least you have something written that others can look at and help you with.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:33 AM
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When Robert Durst killed his friend Susan Berman he sent a letter to the police notifying them she was dead because she wasn't known to get many visitors.

He would have gotten away with it but he had spelt Beverly Hills wrong...
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:28 AM
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Pony, logic has nothing to do with it. Plot comes from conflict. Conflict comes from character. Make your characters believable; in other words make their motivations human and understandable to the reader. This creates buy in from the reader and they will then believe what that character does. Make your characters out of wood following some logic or generalized rules of behavior and you have nothing.
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