WritersBeat.com
 

Go Back   WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table

The Intellectual Table Discussions on political topics, social issues, current affairs, etc.


does sin make religion?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 10-15-2016, 01:54 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default


Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
When the famous English novelist, Somerset Maugham, was expiring in France, aged 91, he summoned the world-class atheist, A. J. Ayer, like a priest to his deathbed, to reassure him that there was no afterlife. Professor Ayer duly delivered the words of consolation Maugham longed to hear.


Maugham must have hated himself. You need somebody at your bedside saying, "Hey, dude, don't worry. After your last breath, it's lights out forever."

I hope people like him won't be "educating" us Pickle. Most of us love living, love our love ones. We want to share eternity with them. Even if I was an atheist, I'd long to be with my children forever.
Hope is evil. Wishful thinking doesn't give a person what they want. With both a person finds themselves waking up one day at seventy wishing they could go back and do it again differently - which is ironic.

__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-15-2016, 03:29 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Hope is evil. Wishful thinking doesn't give a person what they want. With both a person finds themselves waking up one day at seventy wishing they could go back and do it again differently - which is ironic.
Hope is evil? You never had a child lingering near death in a hospital. And you want to "educate" the human race? Be hard to trust that kind of thinking with pet hamsters.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cityboy For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-15-2016)
  #33  
Old 10-15-2016, 03:52 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Hope is evil? You never had a child lingering near death in a hospital. And you want to "educate" the human race? Be hard to trust that kind of thinking with pet hamsters.
Why did you state the child was in a hospital? Demonstrates that even you don't believe what you are writing...
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-17-2016, 11:12 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Why did you state the child was in a hospital? Demonstrates that even you don't believe what you are writing...

Hope is evil? It's a sin so much talent being wasted.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cityboy For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #35  
Old 10-17-2016, 11:57 AM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,212
Thanks: 381
Thanks 401
Default

I think hope can be good or bad. It depends on the context. There is hope based on a reasonable expectation, more like optimism, and then there is hope based on wishful thinking or delusion. I think most accepted definitions allow for either.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-17-2016, 12:42 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I think hope can be good or bad. It depends on the context. There is hope based on a reasonable expectation, more like optimism, and then there is hope based on wishful thinking or delusion. I think most accepted definitions allow for either.
I just hope you or anybody else doesn't really believe hope is evil. A child hopes for a present on his birthday. Is that evil?


It might be a little foolish to hope I will win the lottery, since I haven't purchased any tickets.


I know where you were trying to go with your comment. Ridiculous.

Hope is also something to cling to in dire situations. WTF is so evil with that? You have to be delusional to believe hope is evil.


Believers have "faith."

Last edited by Cityboy; 10-17-2016 at 12:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-17-2016, 12:51 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,212
Thanks: 381
Thanks 401
Default

I'm saying it can be evil; when it's based on a delusion.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-17-2016, 01:21 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

I hope to blow those people to pieces. This may be evil thinking. If the act takes place, then it's an evil action.

But to connect hope and evil to sane or nonviolent people is delusional.

Last edited by Cityboy; 10-17-2016 at 01:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-17-2016, 01:27 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Wishful thinking isn't hope anyhow; it may be more associated with daydreaming or wanting something but not having a strong enough desire to actually achieve it.


It seems to me that some of you became atheists more so just to bash the church than to not believe the existence of God. Why so much disdain for the church (I get it; it has drifted from the teachings of Christ and in some cases the church has turned into a cash cow for some corrupted leaders, but corruption has its roots everywhere these days). Still, I don't hate it. Why can't atheists enjoy their own nothingness or whatever it is they believe. It seems as though without the church, you guys would have little to say. You desire change; you want people to be pleasant, yet there is so much dislike and hatred in your own minds. You're almost blind.

Last edited by Cityboy; 10-17-2016 at 01:50 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cityboy For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #40  
Old 10-17-2016, 01:42 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,212
Thanks: 381
Thanks 401
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Wishful thinking isn't hope anyhow; it may be more associated with daydreaming or wanting something but not having a strong enough desire to actually achieve it.
Like someone who says, "I hope I get a job soon," but he's not doing the legwork.

BAD.

Or like someone who says, "I hope I get a job soon," but he's spent all day making calls and sending out resumes.

GOOD.

For some reason, you're only accepting one kind of context or meaning, one that is positive. Who knows why.

Last edited by Myers; 10-17-2016 at 01:45 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-17-2016, 01:45 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Hope is evil? It's a sin so much talent being wasted.
But you presume that hope must be good, you've never questioned it, and from what I can gather, you are struggling to find a reason as to why hope is good, or that hope is not evil. Your arguments so far are;

1) a parent hoping a child will get better
2) a child hoping they get a present
3) a person blowing up other people is evil, therefore hope cannot be evil

With 1) and 2) the result is not dependent on the "action" (hope), it would be misleading if anyone said otherwise. Would it be evil if a person told another person otherwise?

3) does not relate to hope as 3) does not define evil, it can be used as an example of evil. But what you are stating with this argument is a terrier is a dog, therefore, an Irish wolfhound cannot be a dog. It would be better to start with a statement pertaining to evil, therefore, "all dogs have character a, character b etc, both a terrier and an Irish wolfhound have character a, character b etc, therefore, both are dogs".
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw

Last edited by PickleBottom; 10-17-2016 at 02:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PickleBottom For This Useful Post:
Myers (10-17-2016)
  #42  
Old 10-17-2016, 03:01 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
But you presume that hope must be good, you've never questioned it, and from what I can gather, you are struggling to find a reason as to why hope is good, or that hope is not evil. Your arguments so far are;

1) a parent hoping a child will get better
2) a child hoping they get a present
3) a person blowing up other people is evil, therefore hope cannot be evil

With 1) and 2) the result is not dependent on the "action" (hope), it would be misleading if anyone said otherwise. Would it be evil if a person told another person otherwise?

3) does not relate to hope as 3) does not define evil, it can be used as an example of evil. But what you are stating with this argument is a terrier is a dog, therefore, an Irish wolfhound cannot be a dog. It would be better to start with a statement pertaining to evil, therefore, "all dogs have character a, character b etc, both a terrier and an Irish wolfhound have character a, character b etc, therefore, both are dogs".
Where do you find "evil" in the definition of hope? "A feeling of expectation." Hope is not an action. The definition of evil implies to action--bad character or conduct. Hope stems from within, evil from without. He is an evil person because he committed wicked acts in the past, not because he sat in a corner thinking dark thoughts.

hope
hōp/
noun
noun: hope; plural noun: hopes
  1. 1.
    a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
    "he looked through her belongings in the hope of coming across some information"
    synonyms: aspiration, desire, wish, expectation, ambition, aim, goal, plan, design; More



    Feedback
    Evil | Definition of Evil by Merriam-Webster

    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evil
    1. Cached
    2. Similar


    Merriam‑Webster

    Loading...



    1 a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>









Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cityboy For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #43  
Old 10-17-2016, 03:20 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,212
Thanks: 381
Thanks 401
Default

You don't think inaction based on hope can allow for evil?

"My boyfriend seems like a nice guy, but sometimes he says things that are inappropriate and it makes me uncomfortable. I hope I can trust him around my daughter when I'm not there."
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #44  
Old 10-17-2016, 03:48 PM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
You don't think inaction based on hope can allow for evil?

"My boyfriend seems like a nice guy, but sometimes he says things that are inappropriate and it makes me uncomfortable. I hope I can trust him around my daughter when I'm not there."
Evil is based upon a past action. She's hoping her daughter will be safe, but her hope itself is not evil. If the boyfriend does do something wicked, he then becomes evil.

She's hoping to trust ... that he doesn't do anything evil.

It doesn't make sense to say "hope is evil." What I gathered from Pickle's original statement is that "it's impossible to go back in time, but if I had the chance, I would do things differently."


I agree "wishful thinking doesn't give a person what they want."

Last edited by Cityboy; 10-17-2016 at 03:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cityboy For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #45  
Old 10-17-2016, 03:58 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,212
Thanks: 381
Thanks 401
Default

Again, you're not considering context, or more accurately, you're only considering one context.

To make this as simple as possible, there is rational hope and there irrational hope. So let's look at your dictionary definition:

"A feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen."

That's completely neutral as to the thinking or mindset behind an expected outcome, and it certainly allows for "evil."

It's really not very complicated.

The mother's hope is evil, if it's based on a delusion or denial that leads to just plain negligence.

Last edited by Myers; 10-17-2016 at 04:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #46  
Old 10-17-2016, 04:14 PM
Nacia's Avatar
Nacia (Offline)
Legend
Official Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: London, England.
Posts: 9,639
Thanks: 2,234
Thanks 887
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Where do you find "evil" in the definition of hope? "A feeling of expectation." Hope is not an action. The definition of evil implies to action--bad character or conduct. Hope stems from within, evil from without. He is an evil person because he committed wicked acts in the past, not because he sat in a corner thinking dark thoughts.

hope
hōp/
noun
noun: hope; plural noun: hopes
  1. 1.
    a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
    "he looked through her belongings in the hope of coming across some information"
    synonyms: aspiration, desire, wish, expectation, ambition, aim, goal, plan, design; More



    Feedback
    Evil | Definition of Evil by Merriam-Webster

    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evil
    1. Cached
    2. Similar


    Merriam‑Webster

    Loading...



    1 a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>









evil may not be defined because it is out of control
i would remove out of the dictionary at once out prospect for any language wishing to improve
evil cannot be pinned down to a couple of words as though it has a right of passage
evil is underscribeble random and out of context and therefore extremely impredictable.
__________________
the world is a school
so big you could fool a ruler for a cooler
and each city is a classroom
you could be in an air loom to last you to the moon
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nacia For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #47  
Old 10-17-2016, 04:52 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Where do you find "evil" in the definition of hope? "A feeling of expectation." Hope is not an action. The definition of evil implies to action--bad character or conduct. Hope stems from within, evil from without. He is an evil person because he committed wicked acts in the past, not because he sat in a corner thinking dark thoughts.

hope
hōp/
noun
noun: hope; plural noun: hopes
  1. 1.
    a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
    "he looked through her belongings in the hope of coming across some information"
    synonyms: aspiration, desire, wish, expectation, ambition, aim, goal, plan, design; More



    Feedback
    Evil | Definition of Evil by Merriam-Webster

    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evil
    1. Cached
    2. Similar


    Merriam‑Webster

    Loading...



    1 a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>
Yes, but that was why I wrote "action", because I don't believe it is an action leading to a result, but I am surprised to find out that you do not think it is an action also... The issue with hope is it leads to inaction, and similarly, does not help a result materialise.

Say if we have Sisyphus, rolling his boulder up to the top of the mound, the story is tragic only if Sisyphus hopes the boulder will stay at the top of the mound and relieve him of his burden. It is not tragic if i) Sisyphus accepts his position, ii) Sisyphus has the power to stop rolling the boulder

I disagree that non-action (teaching of non-action) cannot be evil,

-A teacher instructs a child that if the child hopes for an unrealistic event to materialise, the event will materialise. Is this morally reprehensible?
-A person fails to act in the hope that the situation will improve, is this an example of bad conduct?

Why was Hope in Pandora's box, with the evils of the world? A final question (at least for this post) would be, does Hope facilitate other evils (excuses other evils)?
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-17-2016, 05:08 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Wishful thinking isn't hope anyhow; it may be more associated with daydreaming or wanting something but not having a strong enough desire to actually achieve it.


It seems to me that some of you became atheists more so just to bash the church than to not believe the existence of God. Why so much disdain for the church (I get it; it has drifted from the teachings of Christ and in some cases the church has turned into a cash cow for some corrupted leaders, but corruption has its roots everywhere these days). Still, I don't hate it. Why can't atheists enjoy their own nothingness or whatever it is they believe. It seems as though without the church, you guys would have little to say. You desire change; you want people to be pleasant, yet there is so much dislike and hatred in your own minds. You're almost blind.
I'm not an atheist
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-17-2016, 05:47 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,212
Thanks: 381
Thanks 401
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
It seems to me that some of you became atheists more so just to bash the church than to not believe the existence of God. Why so much disdain for the church (I get it; it has drifted from the teachings of Christ and in some cases the church has turned into a cash cow for some corrupted leaders, but corruption has its roots everywhere these days). Still, I don't hate it. Why can't atheists enjoy their own nothingness or whatever it is they believe. It seems as though without the church, you guys would have little to say. You desire change; you want people to be pleasant, yet there is so much dislike and hatred in your own minds. You're almost blind.
I haven't said anything against the church or anything that could remotely indicate "hatred" in my mind.

Can you be more specific or give us an example?

Last edited by Myers; 10-17-2016 at 05:50 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #50  
Old 10-17-2016, 05:58 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I haven't said anything against the church or anything that could remotely indicate "hatred" in my mind.

Can you be more specific or give us an example?
I on the other hand, when I get started, would no doubt have much to say against the church...
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 10-17-2016, 06:00 PM
Myers's Avatar
Myers (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,212
Thanks: 381
Thanks 401
Default

I could too. But I haven't.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Myers For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #52  
Old 10-17-2016, 06:09 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I could too. But I haven't.
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 10-17-2016, 06:58 PM
brianpatrick's Avatar
brianpatrick (Online)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,575
Thanks: 388
Thanks 979
Default

I became an atheist when I was 9. My parents were methodists, and I just couldn't understand how they could believe such a bunch of crap. I was still afraid to go against what they told me God wanted for us, but I didn't buy it. It made no sense. Organized church has a lot of human problems, but I don't think any of it has to do with God, or the idea of God. It's just humans being humans and lying about what they really want and do.

What a waste of time.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to brianpatrick For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-17-2016)
  #54  
Old 10-17-2016, 08:07 PM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I became an atheist when I was 9. My parents were methodists, and I just couldn't understand how they could believe such a bunch of crap. I was still afraid to go against what they told me God wanted for us, but I didn't buy it. It made no sense. Organized church has a lot of human problems, but I don't think any of it has to do with God, or the idea of God. It's just humans being humans and lying about what they really want and do.

What a waste of time.
I was an atheist until New Atheism came along, I wrote a piece on New Atheism on this forum years ago...

"Know your New Atheist

Little Johnny was always a shy withdrawn boy, but very good at school and respectful towards his parents. His parents noted that, shortly after puberty, Johnny became a bit more self absorbed, pretentious and egotistical, but the first time this manifested itself as a symptom of New Atheism, was prior to Thanksgiving dinner, when Little Johnny admonished his aunt for wanting to say a prayer. The outburst consisted of something like, “Why are you guys proselytizing me all the time! God! Stop trying to control my life!” which left his aunt crying, and making silent petitions to God on Little Johnny’s behalf. Little Johnny did not care for this.

Little Johnny’s behavior went on a downward spiral after this incident; he steadily became more sanctimonious in proportion to the number of first world problems he suffered. He stopped listening to religious instruction and also stopped attending church; he walked around in a constant state of anxiety that there was an omnipresent “Jesus-freak” just around the next corner attempting to convert him back to Christianity. As a result of this, Little Johnny armed himself against organized religion through the philosophy supplied to him by Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett et al; he also had an upper-case italicized ‘A’ tattooed onto his shoulder. Little Johnny’s language evolved to include terms such as ‘Straw-Man’, ‘burden-of-proof’, and ‘Flying Spaghetti Monster’, and he also attended a formal gathering with other New Atheists every Sunday to discuss religion. Yet, if anyone suggested that he seemed a bit “fanatical” about his new atheism, he would revert to the standard weak atheism definition; that atheism was merely a lack of belief of God/s.

Eventually it came to the point where Little Johnny’s parents could not avoid the truth any longer; Little Johnny had become a New Atheist! (Little Johnny still avoids this truth)"

"The Reflex of the New Atheist

The greatest threat to the New Atheist is when they are, as a group, described as just as fanatical or irrational as any organized religion, which is contradictory to their goal. The common response by the New Atheist, whenever this assertion is made, is to take the weak atheist stance. Regardless of all evidence to the contrary, they are a person who lacks a belief in God; no other assertion can be made."

...then I decided I better believe in a God to avoid association. I am currently content with my God, that I can prove exists, which will no doubt give grief to New Atheists.
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 10-18-2016, 03:22 AM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Hope is evil? It's a sin so much talent being wasted.
Here's another free tip, suppose if a person knew the outcome of an event, will they hope for it? I would say hope would only be used when the outcome is out of the person's hands. If a person spends all their life hoping what does this say about the control/agency they have over their life? Hope is given to the masses as a substitute for their desired outcome.
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 10-18-2016, 03:40 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by Myers View Post
I haven't said anything against the church or anything that could remotely indicate "hatred" in my mind.

Can you be more specific or give us an example?

Specific--"some," not "all." Why did you feel guilty? Reread what was written. Don't play coy. All you have to do is read some of "their" stuff. Examples? Now you've making me laugh. You are familiar with the stone story, aren't you?

Last edited by Cityboy; 10-18-2016 at 04:05 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 10-18-2016, 03:46 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
I became an atheist when I was 9. My parents were methodists, and I just couldn't understand how they could believe such a bunch of crap. I was still afraid to go against what they told me God wanted for us, but I didn't buy it. It made no sense. Organized church has a lot of human problems, but I don't think any of it has to do with God, or the idea of God. It's just humans being humans and lying about what they really want and do.

What a waste of time.
Perhaps, the biggest lie might be the life your living. You're the guy waiting for the enemy to land before going into action. Here's a tip: You shouldn't speak about the lies of others.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 10-18-2016, 04:00 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Here's another free tip, suppose if a person knew the outcome of an event, will they hope for it? I would say hope would only be used when the outcome is out of the person's hands. If a person spends all their life hoping what does this say about the control/agency they have over their life? Hope is given to the masses as a substitute for their desired outcome.

You have some weird way with words. All you keep saying is "if this" or "if that." What does a child hoping for a present have to do with masses? What do the masses have to do with a stranded motorist hoping another car stops to take him to the nearest gas station? What do the masses have to do with some maniac who plants a bomb hoping he/she can injure or kill many? What hope was given to the masses who opposed the tyrant when they were viciously murdered? Sure, the masses have been controlled and manipulated since day one, but your use of hope--defining it as evil--is incorrect.

I study hard for a test because I'm hoping to get the promotion. How could you say the promotion is out of my hands when I studied hard for two weeks? I am now engaged in a race for the highest mark to achieve my goal--the promotion.

Last edited by Cityboy; 10-18-2016 at 04:03 AM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cityboy For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-18-2016)
  #59  
Old 10-18-2016, 04:48 AM
PickleBottom's Avatar
PickleBottom (Offline)
Always Online
Official Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 1,327
Thanks 378
Default

Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
You have some weird way with words. All you keep saying is "if this" or "if that." What does a child hoping for a present have to do with masses? What do the masses have to do with a stranded motorist hoping another car stops to take him to the nearest gas station? What do the masses have to do with some maniac who plants a bomb hoping he/she can injure or kill many? What hope was given to the masses who opposed the tyrant when they were viciously murdered? Sure, the masses have been controlled and manipulated since day one, but your use of hope--defining it as evil--is incorrect.

I study hard for a test because I'm hoping to get the promotion. How could you say the promotion is out of my hands when I studied hard for two weeks? I am now engaged in a race for the highest mark to achieve my goal--the promotion.
Well it seems that hope is not evil is a "given" (and you have not given me a satisfactory reason as to why hope is not evil), and it is not the masses who benefit through hoping. Would you trade money for hope?

By stating you hope for an outcome you have given the outcome a probability, and it demonstrates the outcome is not something you determine. If you do determine the outcome why hope for it? It would be like hoping you are going to brush your teeth before going to bed. If hoping does not materialise the outcome, using this as a strategy is an example of bad conduct, which, if I remember correctly, is part of the definition of evil that you supplied.
__________________
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas
-George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 10-18-2016, 05:12 AM
Cityboy (Offline)
Still Clicking!
Official Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,541
Thanks: 29
Thanks 163
Default

Originally Posted by PickleBottom View Post
Well it seems that hope is not evil is a "given" (and you have not given me a satisfactory reason as to why hope is not evil), and it is not the masses who benefit through hoping. Would you trade money for hope?

By stating you hope for an outcome you have given the outcome a probability, and it demonstrates the outcome is not something you determine. If you do determine the outcome why hope for it? It would be like hoping you are going to brush your teeth before going to bed. If hoping does not materialise the outcome, using this as a strategy is an example of bad conduct, which, if I remember correctly, is part of the definition of evil that you supplied.
I might hold out an apple to you, and you might insist it's an orange. Then what? Naturally, a dead end. At this stage of the game if we cannot figure out what kind of a fruit it is, then we might just eat it and enjoy it. (But, you keep tying "hope" to masses being oppressed. And if you feel justified in using it that way--so be it.)

I returned because I stumbled upon this poem. So, hopefully, it'll be my last contribution to this thread. It is a nice way to leave:

He who carries a candle of joy
Will light the path for a brother
And furnish the spark to start the flame
of hope in the heart of another.

--Josephine Millard
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cityboy For This Useful Post:
PickleBottom (10-18-2016)
Reply

  WritersBeat.com > General Discussion > The Intellectual Table


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Care to Help Me Flesh Out a Plot Concept? MeganElizabeth1 Writing Help & Issues 5 11-11-2014 04:05 PM
Concept Art Christopher P Writing Help & Issues 16 10-16-2014 01:54 AM
Novel Concept - "You Are Me" Webgoji Writing Help & Issues 7 01-09-2013 08:16 AM
Living Makes Life Hard Willyblues Lyrics 1 08-26-2006 10:46 AM
[Recommend Me A Book] - Abstract / Makes you think DFischer The Library 13 03-05-2006 04:28 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:04 PM.

vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.