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Old 02-07-2013, 11:58 AM
Tor
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Default Hate


Lets talk about Hate
Anger is a human emotion and at times there are good reasons to be angry. It can often be useful in motivating a person to respond to wrongness in the world. Hostility, the offspring of anger, is also natural to humanity and even it can provide a path to growth and even understanding. Ahhh but Hate - that is by definition unreasoning, unnatural, and not helpful in any way. It is insanity because it does nothing to help a person live and in the end unchecked destroys that person. It wantonly attacks anyone it can reach that presents a familiar target.

It seems at times that humanity, while not overtly embracing Hate, allows it to continue unopposed because of supposed mitigating circumstances. "I can understand him hating them because of how they treated him." No matter how you slice it - hate is crazy and at the very least the hater needs help and society needs to be protected from them. Hate may be unavoidable but it is never acceptable.

Recently we have been bludgeoned by what seems to be one hater after another in Arizona, Connecticut, Alabama and daily since in what seems to be and endless parade of terrible events.
Clearly all of the people that did these things lived out their bitterness on the people identified as the objects of this hate and those unfortunate enough to be near them. Again, hate is not reasonable, does not discriminate and is all negative. Once more the term insanity comes to mind.

Once a person becomes a hater, political affiliation becomes meaningless - action against the object of hate is all there is. The person is righteous in their anger and there is nothing as ferocious as the anger of a self-righteous person. In their minds, they become the avenging weapon that the organization they profess belonging to has pointed at its enemies. They become unthinking unfeeling weapons and nothing else.

It is sad that this kind of hate lives in the world and always has. We must be aware of it, protect ourselves from it and never knowingly approve of or allow it to go unchallenged (Witness world War II ). When one tries to further their own political agenda by using such a horrendous example of hatefulness in the attempt to discredit their political adversaries, they can only be seen as defining themselves as an enemy to be confronted.

Hate is a great deceiver. It starts out with sweet words and ends up smashing thinking minds against the table at which negotiations are being attempted. It points at others, accusing them of hateful actions while it harbors no interest in allowing other points- of- view and is, in fact, the center of the hate hurricane.

It is not the weapon that kills but the hate-filled finger that pulls the trigger. So it would seem that the only way to resist hate and the actions caused by it is to recognize it and stop it before it can act. And while the insane are the most likely perpetrators, we all must be prepared to recognize it in ourselves and start to deal with it there.


Last edited by Tor; 02-08-2013 at 10:12 AM..
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Lets talk about Hate

It seems at times that humanity, while not overtly embracing Hate, allows it to continue unopposed because of supposed mitigating circumstances. .
I think humanity, cloathed in fear, allows hate to thrieve. Don't tyrants gain power using cruel acts such as torture? When people are threatened with a choice between torture or submission, doesn't the majority choose the latter, thus becoming a pawn for the tyrant?

Can't hate may be overcome through understanding? Can't a person filled with hate turn his life around before harming himself or others? It isn't as simple as walking from the shade into the sunshine, but hate can be released without serious damages to anyone.

On the other hand, I think fear is the emotion that presents the biggest danger to mankind. When fear wins, the tyrants win. And cruelty and torture and death are certain to rush along to claim the innocents who just wanted to live peaceful lives. Speaking for myself, I probably embraced hate more than once in my life. Fortunately, it harmed nobody except me.


I think.

Can one make a claim that a hate-filled individual who commits a violent act was afraid to confront his own "hate"? Did his or her fear of taking a step in the right direction lead to the crime? I think fear is the culprit.

Again, I think.

Last edited by Cityboy; 02-07-2013 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:56 PM
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Default Shelly

It is clear that you think.
Tor
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
It is clear that you think.
Tor
I also think mental illness, not hate, may have had something to do with some of the killings.

Last edited by Cityboy; 02-08-2013 at 04:43 AM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:58 AM
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With the Arizona, Colorado and Connecticut shootings, it has almost everything to do with mental illness. It doesn't make a lot of sense to lump them all together under the banner of some generic "hate."
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:46 AM
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So it would seem that the only way to resist hate and the actions caused by it is to recognize it and stop it before it can act.
I kinda disagree with that. The biggest problem is that all people don't want to understand. They just want other people to understand. Yet another effort to fix people will be fuel to the fire.

In my opinion the system / society needs to be more open and understanding (apply "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People").
That would take the wind out of hate's sails.

I think the text is pretty well written.
The first few paragraphs seem like there might be some redundancies.
It seemed a little ... bumpy ... when I read through them.
The last paragraphs worked better for me.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:16 AM
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Shelly,
I agree, as I stated, Hate is a part of mental illness - a kind of outward manifestation of inward illness.
Tor
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:22 AM
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Joematt,
As I said to Shelly - hate is a part of mental illness it is often the meathod that the sick mind uses to try and justify its insane actions. It is visible where the causative illness may not be.
Tor
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Signature View Post
In my opinion the system / society needs to be more open and understanding (apply "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People").
That would take the wind out of hate's sails.

.
Considering there are more than 300 million Americans, the attacks (although devastating when they occur) are few. I think we don't need to be applying any more "rules" to the so many we have already. We have the Commandments, which when applied are effective in behaving properly. As one poster already mentioned, the attacks are linked to mental illness, not "hate."

Galatians 5:22

"God's Spirit makes us loving, happy, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle, and self-controlled."

I think seeking the Spirit of God would do us all well.


There are people in mental institutions who know nothing of hate. Some remain silent all day, some mumble to themselves, some laugh at anything they see. I'm no psychiatrist but I think "hate" and "mental illness" aren't a pair.

Take a soldier behind a machine gun--he is neither "hateful" nor "ill." Yet he mows down others for the sake of his own survival. I think to summarize "hate" in six paragraghs is a large order.

Last edited by Cityboy; 02-08-2013 at 10:39 AM..
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:28 AM
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Signature,
Thanks for the writing critique - I know I need that. I don't disagree with your thoughts but I know mental illness is under identified and very under treated when identified. Mentally ill people can not be left to on their own to choose whether or not to be treated. It is our responciblity to ensure treatment is provided for the good of all. Paraphrasing the hippocratic oath - first allow no harm to be done.
Tor
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Signature,
. It is our responciblity to ensure treatment is provided for the good of all. Tor
Well, then, somebody is dropping the ball. Look beneath any bridge, in a cardboard box, in any alley or park, in any subway station or bus terminal, in any homeless shelter, and you will find scores of mentally ill.

Last edited by Cityboy; 02-08-2013 at 10:48 AM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Joematt,
As I said to Shelly - hate is a part of mental illness it is often the meathod that the sick mind uses to try and justify its insane actions. It is visible where the causative illness may not be.
Tor
I can't sort that out. Let me put it this way --

There is the kind of hate based on ignorance and indoctrination -- sometimes fed by propaganda. That has nothing to with mental illness.

With the mentally ill who commit acts of violence, it's about an irrational hate based on delusional thinking.

That's not to say someone who is mentally ill can't be influenced by prevailing attitudes or indoctrination to act out violently -- but the root cause would still be his mental illness.

In the OP and in apparently in the above statement, you're getting the two all jumbled up. But there are different causes -- and different solutions.

Last edited by JoeMatt; 02-08-2013 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:04 AM
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Right. More rules would be wrong.
The problem is that the rules don't take into account that the circumstances and the way people think change.

The Commandments are pretty generic and I don't see a problem there.
Personally I think the one central rule should be:
A person's rights should not end until another person's rights begin.
That would lead to goals like freedom and equality and more openness.

I don't think the few occurrences mean we are doing well. People can just bear a lot.
People struggle with the pressure and expectations ... we do not even aim to reach those goals.
And I think a lot of the mental problems are rooted in (indirect concequences of) rules that should not exist. For example, they don't have the childhood they should.

I see how that is on the edge of "off topic". But I think trying to understand and hack at the roots is the better way than making them understand that hate which makes no sense is the problem they have to deal with. The **** hit the fan earlier ... that should be prevented.

And I always prefer praising something (open-mindedness) over fighting something (hate).
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:06 AM
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JoeMatt,
It is my thought that hate is by its nature insanity by vertue of the fact that it never brings a positve result and yet people continue to think it will. So even if it is an island of insanity in an otherwise stable mind it is still a crazy thing - unchecked -no matter what causes it - it harms the human herd.
Tor
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:24 AM
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There's a difference between some philosophical idea of "insanity" and real mental illness. If you're going to provide examples like the Sandy Hook shooting -- then it really helps to know the difference and somehow make the distinction.

Last edited by JoeMatt; 02-08-2013 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Signature View Post
And I always prefer praising something (open-mindedness) over fighting something (hate).
Even an open mind should be screened.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:16 PM
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Shelly,
if an open mind is screened at least the bugs will be kept out.
Tor

Last edited by Tor; 02-08-2013 at 03:24 PM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:24 PM
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Signature,
Lofty ideas only have value if they are grounded in a realistic veiw of the realities of life. The mentally ill can not exercise their rights because they don't understand them or can't see how they impact on others. They must have help to find their way in the general life of our society. Or we must control them to protect the rest of us. Freedom without responciblity is anarchy.
Tor
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Signature,
Or we must control them to protect the rest of us.Tor
Even the mentally ill must be categorized. For instance, only when the mentally ill who are poor lash out against society, they receive attention. Otherwise, they are left to rot in the shadows.

Hope you don't mind these quotes on hate:

A person is born with feelings of envy and hate. If he gives way to them, they will lead him to violence and crime, and any sense of loyalty and good faith will be abandoned.
Xun Zi

From the deepest desires often come the deadliest hate.
Socrates

I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
Booker T. Washington

Fear of something is at the root of hate for others, and hate within will eventually destroy the hater.
George Washington Carver

I hate women because they always know where things are.
Voltaire

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...CRRwZuPmCvO.99


"Control: how I hate that word."

Last edited by Cityboy; 02-09-2013 at 04:46 AM..
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:46 AM
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Shelly,
one more quote - Hate distroys everything including itself.
Tor
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Shelly,
one more quote - Hate distroys everything including itself.
Tor
I think the reason Jesus told His followers to "love their enemies" is that He knew the hate would sicken the people he loved dearly. So, you are spot on saying hate destroys. I also think when He told His followers to "turn the other cheek," He gave them those instructions in an effort to have them break the vicious cycle of hate.

I'm not positive about what I have stated. Perhaps, someone more familiar with Scripture will correct me if I misled anyone.

Thanks, Tor, for suggesting I am complicated. I always believed I was simple. Who wooda thunk.

Last edited by Cityboy; 02-09-2013 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:24 PM
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thanks Shelly - it is clear we are both complicated people
Tor
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
thanks Shelly - it is clear we are both complicated people
Tor
I think the reason Jesus told His followers to "love their enemies" is that He knew the hate would sicken the people he loved dearly. So, you are spot on saying hate destroys. I also think when He told His followers to "turn the other cheek," He gave them those instructions in an effort to have them break the vicious cycle of hate--eye4eye.


I'm not positive about what I have stated. Perhaps, someone more familiar with Scripture will correct me if I misled anyone.

I always believed I was a simple chap. Who woulda thunk? Thanks.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:02 PM
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Shelly,
I know you know better - about being simple that is - hehehe.
It seems to me that turning the other cheek involves more than turning it or striking back - if possible it seems the best course is to remove your cheeks (all four of them) out of range and avoid hating the agressive one.
Tor
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Shelly,
- if possible it seems the best course is to remove your cheeks (all four of them) out of range and avoid hating the agressive one.
Tor
Beat it penguin colony. That ice floe is mine.
Out of range? Even the Antarctica is overcrowded.

This stuff is too complicated for me. But, something is screaming in my ear that if the aggressor wasn't hated, 90% of the planet's population might yet be slaves. Could hate have positiveto results? Would hate leading to action which brings down a tyrant be considered a good thing?

Running out of range isn't a solution, for the aggressor would snatch whoever he can reach--even though I might be a safe distance from him. The bottom line is that I might have escaped but many didn't. I think the better solution is to make a stand to push back. Better to die a free man than to live a slave. That's what I believe.

I know God is shaking His head with my post. But, Lord, not everybody plays by Your rules.

Last edited by Cityboy; 02-10-2013 at 03:56 PM..
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:51 PM
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Shelly,
Now now it is just you and me - relax.
It is about seeing the aggressor and dealing with them. Not out of hate but because we must to survive. Reason first than stop them at any cost. Not out of hate out of practical need. How I feel.
Tor
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Shelly,
Now now it is just you and me - relax.
It is about seeing the aggressor and dealing with them. Not out of hate but because we must to survive. Reason first than stop them at any cost. Not out of hate out of practical need. How I feel.
Tor
They will hunt you down, Tor. How do you reason with someone whose intentions are to conrol you and to make you theirs. How do you control your negative emotions--hate being the forerunner--after watching children and women slaughtered? It all sounds easy on paper, but in the flesh, it's another ballgame. We are human and subject to human feelings, with love and hate occupying the farthest positions on the pole. Hate cannot be checked so easily, especially after watching the helpless slaughtered.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:04 AM
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Shelly,
I hear what you are saying. It may sound strange but like the zealots that wish only to kill us anywhere any time and cann't be reasoned with - people that live to harm others must be removed from the herd. Not with hate but acceptance of the inevitable - the way a surgeon removes a milignant tumor or a wild animal is kept in a cage.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Tor View Post
Shelly,
or a wild animal is kept in a cage.
Uh oh. Wudja do? I'll finish up with my "cage story."

Peace, Tor. You're delightful cmpany.

A Day at the Zoo

Yesterday, I visited the zoo. It was an unusual zoo, far different from the kind that parents take their children. For this zoo housed only ferocious beasts—the most dangerous animals on our planet. As soon as I arrived, I approached a large cage to observe what was inside it. At first, I didn’t see a thing, but I did happen to notice a sign attached to the bars of the cage. It was a black, rectangular sign with white lettering spelling the name of the beast inside: a Greedaffe. When the beast finally appeared from behind a row of trees, I noticed it looked similar to an animal that roamed the plains of Africa. The Greedaffe had a long slender neck and narrow legs; but, unlike the African animal, this beast had golden eyes, and covering its entire body were green spots resembling the dollar symbol. In disbelief, I watched the beast return to a tree to devour every leaf on it in only minutes. Its appetite was so ravenous that all of the onlookers, including myself, thought the beast’s stomach would burst any moment. “A hundred of those running loose, and the city would be treeless,” I uttered, as I shuffled to the next cage to glance at the lazy animal lying in the sunshine. Sloth was written on the sign.

Last edited by Cityboy; 02-11-2013 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:40 PM
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Shelly,
Like the story, wonder what the sign on my cage would say.
Peace back at you and your company.
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