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Is social media capable of censorship?

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  #61  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Kidnapping is at your own risk. I have a new pistol. You know, the apocalypse is coming soon.

Fightin' talk from a steak

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  #62  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Iím working my way from a lean cut to a juicy ribeye with the help of chorizo and egg burritos. When AI takes over Iíll be so tasty and slow itíll be a no brainer.
AI will be so far ahead of us, they'll have gone through the marbled steak phase, done the bison burger lean meat thing, and be well towards Soylent Green before they even start eating.

You'll be fine no matter how you look, bp.
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
AI will be so far ahead of us, they'll have gone through the marbled steak phase, done the bison burger lean meat thing, and be well towards Soylent Green before they even start eating.

You'll be fine no matter how you look, bp.

Good evening Prod.

Looking might fine in that green tuxedo.

Shall I grab the waiter and put a glass in your hand?
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:02 PM
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Scotch?
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
Scotch?
He looks Spanish to me, but I'll ask him....
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:54 PM
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Tell him I'll take Grand Old Parr.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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  #67  
Old 10-12-2018, 06:13 PM
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I am sure Parr always loves advice from his grandson
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:15 AM
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Supposedly the old boy was an ancestor, but I just like the Scotch.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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  #69  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:32 AM
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Social media is owned by private companies and something people engage in by choice.

True



They are beholden to stock holders and consumers of their services and will make decisions in the interest of those groups.

Possibly true



[/QUOTE] So no, social media canít censor you. They can decide youíre not good for their bottom line, but thatís not censorship. Itís business. Likewise, you can choose not to use their services if you donít agree with their policies.[/QUOTE]


False. Private entities as well as governments can censor. If a company chooses to delete "content not consistent with their values" then they are ..... Wait for it..... Censoring.



If you are a private corporation, company, etc you can censor. Censorship is not the sole property of governments.



Facebook censors.
Google/YouTube censors.
Twitter censors.
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  #70  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
True






Possibly true


So no, social media can’t censor you. They can decide you’re not good for their bottom line, but that’s not censorship. It’s business. Likewise, you can choose not to use their services if you don’t agree with their policies.[/QUOTE]


False. Private entities as well as governments can censor. If a company chooses to delete "content not consistent with their values" then they are ..... Wait for it..... Censoring.



If you are a private corporation, company, etc you can censor. Censorship is not the sole property of governments.



Facebook censors.
Google/YouTube censors.
Twitter censors.[/QUOTE]

A private corporation can censor, but that is not an infringement of the first amendment, which is the fundamental difference between a corporation and government.

The question then comes back to monopolies, which then (to get confusing) bleeds into crony corporatism, and if a government is giving advantages to a monopolistic corporation, then are they infringing the first amendment via the back door?
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  #71  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:51 AM
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censorship does not work unless it is a cigarette.
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  #72  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
So no, social media canít censor you. They can decide youíre not good for their bottom line, but thatís not censorship. Itís business. Likewise, you can choose not to use their services if you donít agree with their policies.

False. Private entities as well as governments can censor. If a company chooses to delete "content not consistent with their values" then they are ..... Wait for it..... Censoring.



If you are a private corporation, company, etc you can censor. Censorship is not the sole property of governments.



Facebook censors.
Google/YouTube censors.
Twitter censors.[/QUOTE]

A private corporation can censor, but that is not an infringement of the first amendment, which is the fundamental difference between a corporation and government.

The question then comes back to monopolies, which then (to get confusing) bleeds into crony corporatism, and if a government is giving advantages to a monopolistic corporation, then are they infringing the first amendment via the back door?[/QUOTE]


I didn't mention the first amendment, and I'm quite aware of that clause in whats known as the Bill of Rights.



Congress has been allowing back door censorship forever. And at times front door censorship.



In theory, if a US college, state or private, receives financial aid from the national government then it is (in theory) supposed to follow edicts from the national government. So if a college or university has a speech code, then it is in violation of the first amendment.
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  #73  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
A private corporation can censor, but that is not an infringement of the first amendment, which is the fundamental difference between a corporation and government.

The question then comes back to monopolies, which then (to get confusing) bleeds into crony corporatism, and if a government is giving advantages to a monopolistic corporation, then are they infringing the first amendment via the back door?

I didn't mention the first amendment, and I'm quite aware of that clause in whats known as the Bill of Rights.



Congress has been allowing back door censorship forever. And at times front door censorship.



In theory, if a US college, state or private, receives financial aid from the national government then it is (in theory) supposed to follow edicts from the national government. So if a college or university has a speech code, then it is in violation of the first amendment.
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  #74  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:25 AM
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We have seen clear examples of the same, for example at Evergreen, which has seen a reduction in public funding and a reduction in intakes commensurate with the damage afforded to its own reputation.

I mentioned the first amendment for a reason, because it is the elephant in the room. A private company is not bound by it, yet the government is. Where the two cross one must ask where the government ends and the private company begins.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
If a company chooses to delete "content not consistent with their values" .


This is your mistake. ^^

If a company chooses to delete ďcontent not consistent with their values,Ē it is not being honest in that statement. If the money was right they would certainly suck that dick too. It has nothing to do with ďvalues.Ē There are often CEOís who express their politics through company decisions, but that doesnít bode well for them with stockholders if it loses money. They might be able to virtue signal for a bit, but most of that is a show. Vote with your dollars. If YouTube is pulling your favorite videos in favor of ones you find in opposition to your beliefs, stop using YouTube. The only other way is to regulate the internet, which is probably the motivation behind much of todayís complaints, anyway. And I think both you and I can agree on that.
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  #76  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:05 AM
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I would add that a company that receives $630m in disclosed public funding is not a private company, it is at least partially public. Add to that the under-the-line back-patting and cronyism and the figure would probably increase hugely.

Does Youtube have a right to act as moral arbiter according to its own ill-defined Overton window. No.

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  #77  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
I would add that a company that receives $630m in dislosed public funding is not a private company, it is at least partially public. Add to that the under-the-line back-patting and cronyism and the figure would probably increase hugely.

Does Youtube have a right to act as moral arbiter according to its own ill-defined Overton window. No.


Hmm... nonsense. If my company received a government contract as part of its revenue, and one of the stipulations was that I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement (probably as good for my company, as it is for whatever reason the gubment wanted it), I would still be a private company (or a publicly traded corporation).

There is cronyism in all levels of government and corporate life. There always will be, but people have the unprecedented ability (through technology) to discover and react to it these days. And everyone involved knows this.

The Overton window is part of what modern corporations use to gauge what will be most profitable. Publicly traded companies are bound by law to make decisions in the interest of profitability. There has to be some regulation to counter balance corporate interests, but it canít go too far or itís the same as the opposition.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Hmm... nonsense. If my company received a government contract as part of its revenue, and one of the stipulations was that I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement (probably as good for my company, as it is for whatever reason the gubment wanted it), I would still be a private company (or a publicly traded corporation).

There is cronyism in all levels of government and corporate life. There always will be, but people have the unprecedented ability (through technology) to discover and react to it these days. And everyone involved knows this.

The Overton window is part of what modern corporations use to gauge what will be most profitable. Publicly traded companies are bound by law to make decisions in the interest of profitability. There has to be some regulation to counter balance corporate interests, but it can’t go too far or it’s the same as the opposition.
No, this is not a simple contract, this is a handshake for creating jobs in our state; this is the very definition of cronyism. A contract requires consideration (legally), it is not a golden handshake.

The Overton window describes acceptable discourse as judged by those more self-righteous than us. Private companies are entitled to set their own window, unless they are in bed with government to such a degree that they lay under the blanket of the first amendment.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
No, this is not a simple contract, this is a handshake for creating jobs in our state; this is the very definition of cronyism. A contract requires consideration (legally), it is not a golden handshake.

The Overton window describes acceptable discourse as judged by those more self-righteous than us. Private companies are entitled to set their own window, unless they are in bed with government to such a degree that they lay under the blanket of the first amendment.


Yes but just because it signed a non-disclosure doesnít mean there was no legal scrutiny. There was; they just canít publicly talk about it.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Yes but just because it signed a non-disclosure doesnít mean there was no legal scrutiny. There was; they just canít publicly talk about it.
Explain further, I miss the relevance mate.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
. A contract requires consideration (legally), it is not a golden handshake.


There WAS legal scrutiny; you just didnít hear about it.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:51 AM
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Oh, but then we just circle back to cronyism.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Oh, but then we just circle back to cronyism.


Sometimes there are deals made wherein public scrutiny would be disadvantageous for both sides involved. Financially and politically. Is it cronyism, yeah. Is it necessarily always bad for your average American, probably not. It really is how business (in part) is done. Capitalism has won the debate for now. Even the Chinese canít avoid its benefits, while suffering its shortcomings.

Slow change is always the best for stability. This is why we shouldnít just kill all the politicians and stupid people in one go.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Sometimes there are deals made wherein public scrutiny would be disadvantageous for both sides involved. Financially and politically. Is it cronyism, yeah. Is it necessarily always bad for your average American, probably not. It really is how business (in part) is done. Capitalism has won the debate for now. Even the Chinese canít avoid its benefits, while suffering its shortcomings.

Slow change is always the best for stability. This is why we shouldnít just kill all the politicians and stupid people in one go.
Yes, I was intellectually dishonest above, apologies. My point was more that cronyism/ crony capitalism/ crony corporatism on the industrial levels we currently see is abhorrent to me.

I believe in a free market with minimal but effective statutory control.

Getting back to the point at hand, my fear is that cronyism disables the competition that could provide us with a realistic alternative to the monopolies that may, or may not silence us.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Yes, I was intellectually dishonest above, apologies. My point was more that cronyism/ crony capitalism/ crony corporatism on the industrial levels we currently see is abhorrent to me.



I believe in a free market with minimal but effective statutory control.



Getting back to the point at hand, my fear is that cronyism disables the competition that could provide us with a realistic alternative to the monopolies that may, or may not silence us.


Yeah, see that, but Iím unsure what could be done about it quickly. Itís a mountain we built and it will have to be dismantled slowly (I really think thatís whatís happeningóitís just a messy process), so as not to collapse the house of cards we call a world economy, and cause us all major strife.

In an idealistic way guys like Mohican are mostly right (minus the beaming sweet white guy on the cross). He would like to see a return to simple values and local control. Nothing wrong with that except in the current world it would require devastation of most of the human population to achieve quickly. Trump was a good pick this time for POTUS. He gives us a glimpse of how the system can be shaken while much of the stabilizing controls are still in place.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by brianpatrick View Post
Yeah, see that, but I’m unsure what could be done about it quickly. It’s a mountain we built and it will have to be dismantled slowly (I really think that’s what’s happening—it’s just a messy process), so as not to collapse the house of cards we call a world economy, and cause us all major strife.

In an idealistic way guys like Mohican are mostly right (minus the beaming sweet white guy on the cross). He would like to see a return to simple values and local control. Nothing wrong with that except in the current world it would require devastation of most of the human population to achieve quickly. Trump was a good pick this time for POTUS. He gives us a glimpse of how the system can be shaken while much of the stabilizing controls are still in place.
Yes, I cannot abide central control, which is why I am pro-Brexit, for all the reasons thoughtful people are- I like democracy, I dislike edicts from on high, I dislike power without responsibility, and the idea of a centralised European government of un-elected fascistic Kafkaesque bureaucrats is unacceptable to me.

Oddly, you may have a partisan press in the US, but the manner in which the BBC handled this issue displayed how deeply privileged and out of touch with reality they are.

In an increasingly connected world we must not allow the elite to ride rough-shod over the many. Social media is a crucible in which we can all speak, and to silence those that do not agree with the lizard-man master race is a mistake.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:02 PM
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Did I just soap-box?
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chinspinner View Post
Did I just soap-box?


Whipped your penis out in a crowded room. Not really the British way as we yanks understand it.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:18 PM
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If it's crowded enough, no one sees it anyway.
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Mr. Ed said I should use his signature, since he's not anymore. In honor of his good friend Nok, here it is: "As far as smoking a cigar," she said, "I'd not know where to start or how to start." "It's simple," said I, "You light one end and chew on the other and hope to meet in the middle."
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