The Unspeakable

[Nick Pierce]

That we fought each other
Fought for our governments
Fought for our lives

Unspeakable
That both sides were right
That two rights made so much wrong

Untraceable
The way back from horror and pain
The way back to original innocence

Unknowable
How this way came to be used
How to stop this way from being used
against us
again

[bluewpc]

I dont really understand this poem in that it doesnt understand why things are. A simplistic complexity. I dont think thats a meaningless paradox.To my mind the underlying foundations are complex but the emergent system it produces is wholly understandable.

Divorcing the second stanza from war one might argue that this is simply the loss of innocence that comes with living. The story of Gautama Buddha comes to mind. The way back to original innocence is oblivion, not nonexistence, but unconsciousness. Call it the forgetting of sentience.

As for the first stanza I find its usually both sides are wrong and wrong begets wrong.

[anna]

@blue

nah, if you are unconscious do you exist ..

the way back to original innocence is far from oblivion

[bluewpc]

Im thinking were differing in our definitions of consciousness. I hold with Jayne's school of thought that consciousness is the ability to self-reflect and to understand self as self. Something that animals appear to be incapable of except at the most rudimentary levels. Levels at which we dont associate with moral intention.

[anna]

the way back to original innocence is not in curbing your enthusiasm for self reflection, empty yer mind dude

[bluewpc]

No no I might invoke Buddha but Im a westerner, there is no extinguishing of the self for me.

[pralina]

Hi Nick. I love it.

[Nick Pierce]

Originally Posted by bluewpc

I dont really understand this poem in that it doesnt understand why things are. A simplistic complexity. I dont think thats a meaningless paradox.To my mind the underlying foundations are complex but the emergent system it produces is wholly understandable.

Divorcing the second stanza from war one might argue that this is simply the loss of innocence that comes with living. The story of Gautama Buddha comes to mind. The way back to original innocence is oblivion, not nonexistence, but unconsciousness. Call it the forgetting of sentience.

As for the first stanza I find its usually both sides are wrong and wrong begets wrong.

Thanks for typing your reactions.

I think you intend the second stanza rather than the first with your last line.

[Nick Pierce]

Originally Posted by bluewpc

No no I might invoke Buddha but Im a westerner, there is no extinguishing of the self for me.

And you are certain this inextinguishable self you refer to is not a buddha?

[Nick Pierce]

Originally Posted by pralina

Hi Nick. I love it.

Yeah. I got some of the debris clear of my inner space with this one.

[bluewpc]

Yes yes youre right I did mean the second stanza. As for being a Buddha Im quite certain. Im much too fond of sound and fury for any of the oriental systems. I think even Shakespeare was.

Edit: You know its strange the dissimilarity, the hyper individualism of the west and the communal long lines of the orient.

[anna]

@blue .. good man, we wouldn’t want to kill you or nothing ...

@blue, @nick .. needless to say - simply enjoy your words, thanks and stuff

[Vince]

when I stumble while on the "WAY" I lay there for a while before I try to get up

[mlp]

I liked this a lot, Nick.