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Is humanity pro science or pro religion?

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  #31  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:05 AM
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I believe it is wise for her to get "facts" about Jesus from someone who has spent a lifetime studying Him and the Church, not some clown who has an ax to grind with Christianity.

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Old 06-20-2018, 08:31 AM
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If a child is drowning, do you believe it matters to the child whether a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or atheist dives into the water to rescue him or her? Furthermore, the person who dives into the water will more than likely be the most unselfish of all. Belief or unbelief will have a minor role in saving the child. Instead, what will save the child is the "character" (or heart of the individual. Therefore, I say to you: remove your bias cap before attempting to provide information about something you vehemently dislike. Your "credibility" is zero. You're excellent at dividing people; that's your forte.
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  #33  
Old 06-20-2018, 09:04 AM
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I don't believe he vehemently dislikes it, Cityboy. It's more that he disagrees with some of their beliefs, the way you disagree with some of his, but with a lot less name-calling.

He seems to have studied the issue, and come across a belief that is his, which gives him far more credibility than someone whose beliefs are borrowed from others, and who expresses them through quotes and articles others have written.

As Einstein probably never said, if you can't explain something simply, using your own words, you don't know your subject.
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  #34  
Old 06-20-2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Nacia, this is Jesus views concerning money. I'll give you the name of the person who wrote it at another time -- scholar who has spent years studing The New Testament and Jesus.

Jesus on Money
Jesus was not opposed to the private owner of property nor to the normal process of making a living. He was opposed to a manís loyalty, devotion, and energy being devoted to and captivated by money, property, or wealth. To Jesus, there must be no pursuit as important as the pursuit of Godís will. Every activity of Life is to be subordinate to this. Fame, sex, making money, even the pursuit of art, culture, and wisdom, must not detract the person from his main goal of life. "You cannot serve God and mammon," Jesus said. Mammon is simply the Aramic word for property.

Jesus saw danger in the pursuit of money not only because what it might do to the individual, but what it might do to his relations with other men. How often do men gain money at the expense of others? Some desire money so strongly that they will sell anything, including themselves, for it. This lust for money Jesus condemned.
He said, "Do not be anxious about tomorrow." Trust in our heavenly Father for every need should eliminate the anxiety we have about money. Work is necessary for our daily bread, but anxietyónever.

This requires faith deeper than most of us have, but Jesus invites us to follow him, to seek the kingdom first and "all these things shall be added to you."
 
I mean yeah money is what it is and I think to introduce religion to it is going to make it a bit difficult because it all ends up doing is making people feel guilty which encourages dishonesty.

Humans are weak beings a bit like Adam and Eve. Guilt is assigned as a punishment if you are religious and wants to live your life at the same time.


also I have a question:
if money was that bad how priests in churches going around collecting money from church goers. isn't that double standard?
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  #35  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:17 AM
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Because he's mixed-up, he spews the wrong stuff. He could believe whatever he wants, but he should ditch all that divisive garbage clogging his head.

He has no credibility lecturing people about Christians when he has an agenda to fill; he's a "put-down" artist. That isn't to say he can't change.

Enough here. None of my business. Just a heads up for others to avoid his trap.
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  #36  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
if money was that bad how priests in churches going around collecting money from church goers. isn't that double standard?
Everything costs money. There isn't anything wrong in accepting donations as long as you don't squeeze anyone. I mean, common sense dictates if a person is broke, you don't ask for anything. Just pass the plate under the noses of people who could afford to give.

Money isn't bad. It is the way many go about to acquire it -- many people will trample their own mother for it. And it shouldn't be more valuable than any human life. It is a necessity but not a god.

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  #37  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:39 AM
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Calling him a clown and a fool are compliments compared with some of the names you called me.

What you believe is irrelevant. Since he has been posting in this forum, he has displayed "anti-Christian" and "anti-God" tendencies. Sometimes, disgusting comments too.

Furthermore, having people like him offer information about Christians or Christianity is no different from having a fox guard chickens -- dangerous.

Last edited by Cityboy; 06-20-2018 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Calling him a clown and a fool are compliments compared with some of the names you called me.

What you believe is irrelevant. Since he has been posting in this forum, he has displayed "anti-Christian" and "anti-God" tendencies. Sometimes, disgusting comments too.

Furthermore, having people like him offer information about Christians or Christianity is no different from having a fox guard chickens -- dangerous.


You are a funny man. Actually, at your level, Iím surprised you post things on the internet at all. You should thank whatever genealogy gifted you the spunk to get out there and contribute, because at your level of intelligence not many people are. Not on forums anyway. Yeah, they tweet and Facebook, but longer posts on forums in the ďITĒ not so much.

I still suspect you are JUST trolling. Iím not sure what for here... thereís not much to gain (except maybe the closing of this site).
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  #39  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Because he's mixed-up, he spews the wrong stuff. He could believe whatever he wants, but he should ditch all that divisive garbage clogging his head.

He has no credibility lecturing people about Christians when he has an agenda to fill; he's a "put-down" artist. That isn't to say he can't change.

Enough here. None of my business. Just a heads up for others to avoid his trap.


I have no agenda at all. I have lots of friends who are Christians whom I would trust with my childrenís lives. Seriously. My wife is a Catholic, and a devout one. We agree to disagree on some matters of theology, but we have worked out a mutually beneficial relationship for 25 years (including 3 children).

Iím not a put-down artist, and I donít seek to be divisive. I have studied the Bible and other spiritual teachings for decades because itís what Iím interested in. Iím also interested in human psychology, mythology, symbolism, and economics as it relates to human productivity and advancement. I have no big solutions because Iím probably not smart enough or conscientious enough to produce those.

So... I wank-out a few theories here on the WB, and call bullshit when I see it.

Simple as that.
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  #40  
Old 06-23-2018, 07:30 AM
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Brian Patrick said : Even Jesus said so. ďWhoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.Ē

Iíve heard Christians argue that this is talking about spiritual wealth, but if you read it in context, itís not. Yeah, itís a good argument with which to make a political point, but itís not what the guy was talking about.

Please sight chapter, verse and version (kjv, niv, etc) where this is. I think this is a very, very bad paraphrase and completely misses the meaning.
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  #41  
Old 06-23-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
I mean yeah money is what it is and I think to introduce religion to it is going to make it a bit difficult because it all ends up doing is making people feel guilty which encourages dishonesty.

Humans are weak beings a bit like Adam and Eve. Guilt is assigned as a punishment if you are religious and wants to live your life at the same time.


also I have a question:
if money was that bad how priests in churches going around collecting money from church goers. isn't that double standard?

Money isn't evil. It's a thing, a marker.



"Money is the root of all evil" is incomplete.



"The love of money is the root of all evil" is the complete proverb.
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2018, 08:09 AM
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I am come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

For God sent not his son into the world to condemn it: but that the world through him might be saved.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

This is my commandment: That ye love one another, as I have loved you. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one another.

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

Jesus the Christ.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:23 AM
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Biased people shouldn't offer information about things they despise. It's like putting a chubby kid and a skinny kid on a see-saw. The chubby kid will always be at the bottom. And that ain't bullshit.
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  #44  
Old 06-23-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
I am come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

For God sent not his son into the world to condemn it: but that the world through him might be saved.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

This is my commandment: That ye love one another, as I have loved you. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one another.

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

Jesus the Christ.
hello Cityboy
the issue I have with all this love is the flip side of it.
love and hate comes to mind. You can love someone then hate them the next because that is human nature. It is volatile and love is not the answer.
I am no preacher or god follower but I need not to be taught or told I have to have feelings towards someone I don't know so I can get on with them. I can do that without love.
I prefer because it is better lasting is respect towards one another.
respect is not linked to love it has no views and cares not about what the person is or looks like and therefore I think it is better long term.
love is limited to people that are related to you and obviously persons who are intimate with you.
That is why I don't agree with what Jesus said or done.
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
This is my commandment: That ye love one another, as I have loved you. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one another.
I find it amusing that you quote this verse, because you don't even exemplify or practice it yourself.

When you start name-calling people, criticizing them, and otherwise acting belligerent toward them, is that loving one another?

I think you're a hypocrite, like many Christians are.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Konan View Post
I find it amusing that you quote this verse, because you don't even exemplify or practice it yourself.

When you start name-calling people, criticizing them, and otherwise acting belligerent toward them, is that loving one another?

I think you're a hypocrite, like many Christians are.

You're kind of boring. I try to avoid boring people.
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  #47  
Old 06-23-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Nacia View Post
hello Cityboy
the issue I have with all this love is the flip side of it.
love and hate comes to mind. You can love someone then hate them the next because that is human nature. It is volatile and love is not the answer.
I am no preacher or god follower but I need not to be taught or told I have to have feelings towards someone I don't know so I can get on with them. I can do that without love.
I prefer because it is better lasting is respect towards one another.
respect is not linked to love it has no views and cares not about what the person is or looks like and therefore I think it is better long term.
love is limited to people that are related to you and obviously persons who are intimate with you.
That is why I don't agree with what Jesus said or done.
Nobody is trying to force you to change ways or to behave in a certain way. Christ was presenting a truth when He said "Love" is the greatest force in the whole universe.

Where are you getting this stuff that you have to be related to someone to love them? "Love" is the best emotion in the human body. In many cases, it takes years to cultivate (some people are slower learners than others). But, it is "always" there -- inside of every person just waiting to be turned loose. And when it is turned loose, it transforms people. Take the case of Saul. He persecuted Christians before turning into one of the most loving individuals of all time. With love, there can be no hate, no killing, no suffering, no hunger, no sorrow. You really don't understand this magnificent power -- but you're not alone. Most of us don't either.
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  #48  
Old 06-23-2018, 09:28 AM
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Nacia, no offense. But, if you want to take the advice of narrow-minded people, you'll never grow,

Some people "trust" others as long as the other's narrow-minded opinions coincide with their own. But, as soon as the other person disagrees with them, then there real self emerges, and they give the others an earful of their "bullshit."

You don't want to be the eagle that thought it was a turkey. Time to spread your wings, gal. Fly. You're the boss.
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  #49  
Old 06-23-2018, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
You're kind of boring. I try to avoid boring people.
I don't buy that excuse. I mean, you're the guy who suggested I write an article called: "How to Be an Exciting Person". So you must have had some faith in my knowledge on what it takes.

But, hey, if you want to remain ignorant to the true nature of your character, that's certainly your prerogative. If you don't want to recognize and acknowledge your hypocritical tendencies, that they may be corrected, I'm not interested in putting much effort into convincing you otherwise.
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohican View Post
Please sight chapter, verse and version (kjv, niv, etc) where this is. I think this is a very, very bad paraphrase and completely misses the meaning.


I copied and pasted from Bible hub so as to get the wording right. Iíd start somewhere around Matthew 13:7 (for context) and read through 13:25. You can read it in KJV, but the language is more flowery. KJ is probably not really close to the more ancient (original) versions, and everything from there is skewed toward modern western culture, so if you donít want the extra work, NIV will be fine.

And actually, this story is told by at least four of the disciples from different angles, but it generally means the same thing. It has nothing to do with money other than the use of it as metaphor for what Jesus is saying about the kingdom of heaven.

You and I may not be able to have a very useful bible discussion because we come from different starting points. But... have you watched Jordan Petersonís Bible series lectures? Heís a relative new comer to the scene, but heís very persuasive. Maybe helpful to you, maybe not.

Oh yeah, I know I kind of insulted CB a little in a post. You donít have to send me a warningóI take responsibility. You can delete that post and insert your favorite Bible quote or something.
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
I am come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

For God sent not his son into the world to condemn it: but that the world through him might be saved.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

This is my commandment: That ye love one another, as I have loved you. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one another.

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

Jesus the Christ.


Yeah, this is a very loaded statement by ďthe Christ.Ē He is talking about the way things actually work, as opposed to the way most humans believe they work. Your brain (and mine) filter out 99% of whatís really going on in the world in favor of the manageable 1% (this isnít real math, just a guesstimate). His word ďloveĒ means much more than our standard definition.

I donít personally believe there was an actual Jesus, but that doesnít mean the words in red donít have value for all humans. They do. I donít see how any intelligent person can deny that. Itís just when we put those words in to practice with little understanding of their true meaning where I object. When we make laws WRT our simplest understandings of the deeper wisdom there, itís pathetic at best, and draconian or totalitarian at worst. Like the Muslim fundamentalistsí implementation of Sharia law in certain countries. Itís unhelpful and destructive. Although, thereís an argument to be made that, biologically, humans thrive through challenge, struggle. And I suppose fighting a tyrannical govít could be called struggle.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:38 AM
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Insult. With your shorts, all you did was provide a laugh. I had to chime in. I couldn't see Nacia falling for your nonsense. At least, you're standing on your own these days and not Joematt's lap dummy.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Insult. With your shorts, all you did was provide a laugh. I had to chime in. I couldn't see Nacia falling for your nonsense. At least, you're standing on your own these days and not Joematt's lap dummy.


Again, I really believe you are just trolling here in the true sense of the word. That, or youíre just not smart enough to keep up with the conversation. Not that being of simple intellectual means devalues you in any way as a human being. Youíre still just as valuable as the rest of us if thatís the case.

I communicated with Joe as recently as last week, and he didnít try to get me to sit on his lap. He might later, dunno.

I think you miss himóheís been away from here a while.

Anyway, keep up the fun man. I can do this all day.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:56 AM
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What you believe is of tiny significance. In a hundred years, all trace of you will be erased. But, Jesus name will still be spoken about.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:05 PM
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Conversation, I think not. More like propaganda coming from a very narrow and biased mind.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
What you believe is of tiny significance. In a hundred years, all trace of you will be erased. But, Jesus name will still be spoken about.


Maybe in 100, but five thousand years from now Jesus will be a footnote in history. What he was reported to say has value but there are thousands of similar teachers, and will be thousands more. Please try to keep up, sir. Youíre embarrassing yourself.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Conversation, I think not. More like propaganda coming from a very narrow and biased mind.


Iím not sure what you mean here except that you seem to be trying to incite some kind of response to the insult youíve made. Itís about a 2 on a scale of 1-10. Again... please think harder about what you say. Unless you are just wanting to fight. I like a good fight.
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Old 06-23-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
I believe it is wise for her to get "facts" about Jesus from someone who has spent a lifetime studying Him and the Church, not some clown who has an ax to grind with Christianity.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
If a child is drowning, do you believe it matters to the child whether a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or atheist dives into the water to rescue him or her? Furthermore, the person who dives into the water will more than likely be the most unselfish of all. Belief or unbelief will have a minor role in saving the child. Instead, what will save the child is the "character" (or heart of the individual. Therefore, I say to you: remove your bias cap before attempting to provide information about something you vehemently dislike. Your "credibility" is zero. You're excellent at dividing people; that's your forte.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Because he's mixed-up, he spews the wrong stuff. He could believe whatever he wants, but he should ditch all that divisive garbage clogging his head.

He has no credibility lecturing people about Christians when he has an agenda to fill; he's a "put-down" artist. That isn't to say he can't change.

Enough here. None of my business. Just a heads up for others to avoid his trap.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Calling him a clown and a fool are compliments compared with some of the names you called me.

What you believe is irrelevant. Since he has been posting in this forum, he has displayed "anti-Christian" and "anti-God" tendencies. Sometimes, disgusting comments too.

Furthermore, having people like him offer information about Christians or Christianity is no different from having a fox guard chickens -- dangerous.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Biased people shouldn't offer information about things they despise. It's like putting a chubby kid and a skinny kid on a see-saw. The chubby kid will always be at the bottom. And that ain't bullshit.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
You're kind of boring. I try to avoid boring people.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Nacia, no offense. But, if you want to take the advice of narrow-minded people, you'll never grow,

Some people "trust" others as long as the other's narrow-minded opinions coincide with their own. But, as soon as the other person disagrees with them, then there real self emerges, and they give the others an earful of their "bullshit."

You don't want to be the eagle that thought it was a turkey. Time to spread your wings, gal. Fly. You're the boss.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Insult. With your shorts, all you did was provide a laugh. I had to chime in. I couldn't see Nacia falling for your nonsense. At least, you're standing on your own these days and not Joematt's lap dummy.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
What you believe is of tiny significance. In a hundred years, all trace of you will be erased. But, Jesus name will still be spoken about.
Originally Posted by Cityboy View Post
Conversation, I think not. More like propaganda coming from a very narrow and biased mind.
(Prodigalson reluctantly dons green robe) Try to stick to the subject, Cityboy.
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Old 06-23-2018, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Prodigalson View Post
(Prodigalson reluctantly dons green robe) Try to stick to the subject, Cityboy.
Yes thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:39 PM
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7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

So yes, the quote was pulled from scripture, but I'm not sure about how you were trying to apply it. Definitely a veer in the conversation....
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