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Old 02-23-2007, 06:13 AM
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MEDICAL WEIRDNESS


Possible side effects rattled off at the end of a TV commercial for Humira, a drug to relieve arthritis: fatal infections, lymphoma cancer and tuberculosis. Why would anyone expose themselves to that kind of risk just to ease arthritis pain?

Sleeping pill medications invariably list drowsiness as a side effect. But isn't drowsiness the intended main effect for sleeping pills?

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Old 02-23-2007, 06:19 AM
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sometimes you have to think if the medicine you are taking is making you better or worse. i have a cyst on my brain which casues to much fluid to form sometimes and will cause me to get headaches and my docotr gave me antidepressants for the headachs. however, i stopped taking them becauase they make me lightheaded and very sleepy on the bottle is says may casue drowiness but it should say will knock you out.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:33 AM
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I know what you mean...my other half has bi-polar...his medication can cause anxiety and depression...oh goody!
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Old 02-23-2007, 03:46 PM
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The problem, sadly, is that of lawsuits.

Chances are most of those aren't serious problems. I doubt many people get tuberculosis from Humira. But if somebody takes the pills, then gets tuberculosis, they might link he wrong cause to effect. And in America, lawsuits rarely fail.
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Old 02-24-2007, 06:35 PM
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Hey kellykat

Check out the book "Mood Cures" for info on amino acids instead of anti-depressants.

Kit
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:36 AM
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i just can't fathom why people take drugs (aka easy shortcuts) to feel better, when obviously the real solution is to live a healthier life through different habits. everything that is is because it once was an idea.

i guess people are just lazy and stupid... though i don't much like to believe that's true. (even now as i type this, i'm thinking "no way... no way people are actually like this. maybe they'll get offended or something and "wake up"")

or, which is a much more true sounding explanation to my ears, people have no understanding of their life's purpose. so, it's appropriate that person X be crippled with multiple schlerosis because it's part of his life contract. and person Y gets HIV and suffers for 30 before withering away because his collective soul's intelligence needed to gather that life experience.

either way, shortcut drugs/emergency surgeries are just not the kind of thing you rely on to get healthy. they're only for dire situations in which things have gotten way out of control and gone too far.

:76:
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Old 02-25-2007, 07:20 PM
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Maybe we are in desperate pain and have limited resources and are willing to try anything so we can function, earn a living, be there for our loved ones.
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by riverstone View Post
Maybe we are in desperate pain and have limited resources and are willing to try anything so we can function, earn a living, be there for our loved ones.
maybe. maybe we'd do better for our loved ones if we took care of ourselves in the first place. like, if you eat right and exercise for 60 years, you don't get cancer, and so you don't need the drugs and therapy. if you think the right thoughts, and be honest with your own private heart, you don't wind up with emotional problems.

these things get horribly obfuscated when you put your faith into the traditions/standards of the society into which you're born. they just don't work, period. they're dreamt up by some king or queen or something 700 years ago, and simply do not apply to people today, specifically you.

bottom line is that society... at least the culture of this particular society... will lead you to be crippled and confused with no compensation. and something about that needs to change. we, as writers, have the capacity and power to determine what words people use and which concepts people think. it's our duty to speak with fervent intent and purpose. creative with vision.
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:32 AM
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Reconsiderate,

It's not really that simple. Genetics can predispose people with even the healthiest of lifestyles to cancer.

And thinking the most positive thoughts in the world isn't going to correct a chemical imbalance. Your line of thinking is dangerous because it lays blame on the patient. Would you tell a child with juvenile diabetes to stop taking insulin? It's the same with someone who has clinical depression due to a chemical imbalance--they can't "think their way" better.

Maybe some people do try drugs first when other things should be explored, but I would never make a blanket statement that people with cancer lived unhealthy lives and clinically depressed people should just try to be more optimistic. Maybe I misunderstood you?
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by piperdawn View Post
It's not really that simple. Genetics can predispose people with even the healthiest of lifestyles to cancer.
Which is why we should choose our parents very carefully, as they chose theirs.

Originally Posted by piperdawn View Post
It's the same with someone who has clinical depression due to a chemical imbalance--they can't "think their way" better.
Although they claim otherwise, scientists don't really know if the chemical imbalance they notice in clinically depressed people is the cause or the effect of depression. Taking drugs that tamper with brain chemicals is risky since no one knows exactly how the brain works. There are non-drug treatments available for depression.
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:35 AM
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Wow, I don't even know how to answer that. People have shown marked improvement on antidepressants and other medications that correct chemical imbalances in the brain. What about people with Parkinson's disease? That's another illness related to neurotransmitters in the brain--dopamine is one of them. Science has proven that correcting this chemical imbalance with medication has alleviated some of the symptoms of Parkinson's disease. Should my dad just "think" his way out of his tremors? Of course not. Then why in the world would anyone expect someone who is clinically depressed to "think" their way out of a medical condition? Or maybe they should just pray to Tom Cruise?
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by piperdawn View Post
Science has proven that correcting this chemical imbalance with medication has alleviated some of the symptoms of Parkinson's disease. Should my dad just "think" his way out of his tremors? Of course not. Then why in the world would anyone expect someone who is clinically depressed to "think" their way out of a medical condition?
The causes of Parkinson's disease are much better understood than the causes of depression.

No one has to try to think their way out of depression or use anti-depressant drugs. As I said, there are non-drug treatments available.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:21 AM
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I supposed you're talking about herbs and supplements? Unregulated products that have just as serious, if not worse, side effects as prescription medications provided under a doctor's care? No thanks. Where do you think a large amount of prescription medications come from? A lot of them are derivatives from herbs and plants.

Just because something grows out of the ground doesn't mean it's safe. Ginkgo biloba is known to raise blood pressure to unsafe levels, for instance. St. John's Wort has been known to cause retinal ulcerations and liver damage. Those are just two examples off of the top of my head.

If you had ever truly sufferred, (or had watched someone else truly suffer) profound depression, I doubt you would dismiss prescription intervention so quickly. You would want yourself or your loved one to have the safest, most effective palliative measure. Swallowing a handful of unregulated supplements handed out by some old hippie doesn't seem to be the safest route to go to me.

Hope you can take this comment in the spirit it was intended, btw. Nothing personal--I just don't like when people start attaching stigmas to mental illness and drug treatments. It shames people out of getting the help that they need.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by piperdawn View Post
I supposed you're talking about herbs and supplements?
No, I was referring to individual psychotherapy, group therapy, etc. to uncover the mental causes of depression. This is a legitimate medical treatment for depression.

Originally Posted by piperdawn View Post
If you had ever truly suffered, (or had watched someone else truly suffer) profound depression, I doubt you would dismiss prescription intervention so quickly.
I have and I did. Several years ago I was diagnosed with clinical depression and one after another I was prescribed every anti-depressant drug on the market. They did nothing except make me physically ill in various ways. Eventually, I stopped taking them and I felt much better -- including less depression. It's difficult to feel mentally upbeat when you're too nauseous to have an appetite for food or suffering from diarrhea or severe constipation.

But I escaped relatively unharmed. Anti-depressant drugs have dangerous side effects (especially with young people) that have included homicide and suicide. In many cases they don't work any better than a placebo.

Don't put your faith in prescription drugs or the federal agency that is supposed to protect the public from dangerous ones. The pharmaceutical industry is strictly about huge profits.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by piperdawn View Post
Maybe I misunderstood you?
Sounds to me like you hear and understand just fine. It's important to keep in mind though that nothing just happens out of nowhere. That's really what I'm talking about.

Someone who's already in the depths of, say, depression of Parkinson's disease... this person is already way too far down the neglectful/unheeding path. So sure, it sounds quite unlikely to me as well that he just "think" his way out and back into health. I do declare that it is possible, but not very probable... especially for someone who's never heard of this kind of thing before.

Every single solitary thing that any of us experiences is the product of our thinking... in conjunction with the environment. So, if a person truly heeds his surroundings as he grows, it is possible for him to evade whatever horrible fate the universe may have in store for him. After all, he's being warned about it at least once per day.

But, if he ignores all the signs and says: "Eh, that's not about me. That's about that other guy." or "Eh, I'll get to it later." then sure. He's going to need that surgery or those pills. But then he winds up having accomplished very little, if anything at all.

It's about understanding of self in the context of this immediate environment. If you want to distill everything I'm saying down to its core essence, that's it. Self in this particular environment.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:26 PM
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So, the fact that my father's mother had Parkinson's disease has nothing to do with his being afflicted with it now? My father somehow willed it upon himself by his "neglectful/unheeding path?" Umm, okay. I'd get angry if that wasn't such an absurd statement. Heck, why should anyone go to the doctor anymore? We can all just burn some sage, get enlightened, and live forever! I wish it were that simple.

I worked for years with extremely physically- and mentally-ill people. Sometimes drugs were a salvation to those people. If therapy alone can get a person out of severe depression, I would be the first to recommend it. But if someone has an altered mental state due to organic, genetic, or traumatic (closed head injury, for example) reason, then therapy alone will never fix that. It just can't. Try telling a paranoid schizophrenic that he's just paranoid and see how far it will get you. Not very. People with psychoses live in a very different reality from everyone else; they can't be "talked" into the real world.

And what about children with mental illness? Did they somehow deserve it because they were unenlightened/neglectful/unheeding?

Drugs are overprescribed and overconsumed in America, to be sure. But it's ridiculous to think that some people are ill because they didn't try hard enough to be positive, or didn't align their chakras correctly, or aren't enlightened enough. It's also meanspirited as hell to suggest that they didn't try hard enough to be well.

It's irresponsible to make sweeping generalizations about drugs and their use/misuse for an entire population. If therapy coaxed someone out of their depression, then it was a situational depression, not a longterm, intractable depression. Those are two completely different medical states and are therefore treated with different medical approaches. You wouldn't treat cancer the same way you'd treat a broken ankle, either.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by piperdawn View Post
So, the fact that my father's mother had Parkinson's disease has nothing to do with his being afflicted with it now? My father somehow willed it upon himself by his "neglectful/unheeding path?" Umm, okay. I'd get angry if that wasn't such an absurd statement. Heck, why should anyone go to the doctor anymore? We can all just burn some sage, get enlightened, and live forever! I wish it were that simple.
I can see this is a touchy subject for you, piperdawn, so allow me to lead by saying that my intentions are to hold a discussion... rather than harm you in some way.


Originally Posted by piperdawn View Post
I worked for years with extremely physically- and mentally-ill people. Sometimes drugs were a salvation to those people. If therapy alone can get a person out of severe depression, I would be the first to recommend it. But if someone has an altered mental state due to organic, genetic, or traumatic (closed head injury, for example) reason, then therapy alone will never fix that. It just can't. Try telling a paranoid schizophrenic that he's just paranoid and see how far it will get you. Not very. People with psychoses live in a very different reality from everyone else; they can't be "talked" into the real world.

And what about children with mental illness? Did they somehow deserve it because they were unenlightened/neglectful/unheeding?

Drugs are overprescribed and overconsumed in America, to be sure. But it's ridiculous to think that some people are ill because they didn't try hard enough to be positive, or didn't align their chakras correctly, or aren't enlightened enough. It's also meanspirited as hell to suggest that they didn't try hard enough to be well.

It's irresponsible to make sweeping generalizations about drugs and their use/misuse for an entire population. If therapy coaxed someone out of their depression, then it was a situational depression, not a longterm, intractable depression. Those are two completely different medical states and are therefore treated with different medical approaches. You wouldn't treat cancer the same way you'd treat a broken ankle, either.
If you like, I will happily concede that, for some people, it may be absolutely inevitable that Parkinson's disease sets in. After all, how can I possibly argue anything else? You've witnessed and experienced contrary evidence first hand! Simply put, my message is that it is possible for any given person to know what is in store for him in his life, and, if he cares enough about it, he is able to find his way onto the best possible path.

That's been my experience anyway.

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Old 02-26-2007, 04:04 PM
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You're right, it is a touchy subject with me. Thank you for your sensitive and kind response.

I've seen a lot of people suffer because they were too ashamed to go on necessary medications. My dad refused medications for his Parkinson's disease at first and now he will never regain as much function as he could have. I've also known people who ended their lives when they couldn't grit their teeth and bear it through the depression. If they had been on antidepressants while they got the help that they needed, they may not have made such a terrible choice.
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