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Nacia 06-20-2017 04:44 AM

Faith versus God
 
is faith stronger and more relevant then god and religion?

for example:

I can have faith in myself or a friend because I believe their friendship has worth in time of needs
or
take a convert
he or she switches religion because he or she develop a faith that convinces them one religion is better then the other.
it is not about god but about the belief a conviction that one thing is better then the other.

faith is more update and more relevant then religion in this cases and many more.
do you agree?

PickleBottom 06-21-2017 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacia (Post 733607)
is faith stronger and more relevant then god and religion?

for example:

I can have faith in myself or a friend because I believe their friendship has worth in time of needs
or
take a convert
he or she switches religion because he or she develop a faith that convinces them one religion is better then the other.
it is not about god but about the belief a conviction that one thing is better then the other.

faith is more update and more relevant then religion in this cases and many more.
do you agree?

Interesting question, and, is faith risk?

Nacia 06-21-2017 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PickleBottom (Post 733636)
Interesting question, and, is faith risk?

risk??

JohnConstantine 06-21-2017 07:14 AM

You might say faith is akin to risk assessment for all non-absolutes.

That which builds up a strong currency of risk should in turn draw little faith. Risk of England losing at football very high... therefore little faith in them. A spectrum then could be drawn between those who have faith in everything and therefore take all kinds of risks and those who have no faith in anything and are therefore risk averse. Faith and risk in this way are two major underpinnings of human action.

Hi Nacia! :shifty:

PickleBottom 06-22-2017 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacia (Post 733638)
risk??

Yes, what JC said!

CandraH 06-22-2017 06:19 AM

Havent read the other replies but in a random thought response, yes, "faith" is much stronger than just religion. People in general are hard wired to "believe in" things so I think that probably came first, then structured religions/cults etc were created afterwards.

Its also interesting to watch people who extricate themselves from one religion only to find themselves caught up in a different one. Or just believing in something or other because thats the type of person they are. Thinking of my mum here, who was raised catholic, got out of that but ended up becoming buddhist. It seems like she cant escape her believer conditioning so she cant go through life without it in some form or other.

JohnConstantine 06-23-2017 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandraH (Post 733678)
Havent read the other replies but in a random thought response, yes, "faith" is much stronger than just religion. People in general are hard wired to "believe in" things so I think that probably came first, then structured religions/cults etc were created afterwards.

Its also interesting to watch people who extricate themselves from one religion only to find themselves caught up in a different one. Or just believing in something or other because thats the type of person they are. Thinking of my mum here, who was raised catholic, got out of that but ended up becoming buddhist. It seems like she cant escape her believer conditioning so she cant go through life without it in some form or other.


Yeah or like... when nations gave up on God and started worshipping the state, North Korea is supposed to be atheist...

I had the perfect amount of Thanks until you came along :shifty:

Jay 06-23-2017 08:00 AM

I love the word faith. While many have associated it with religions, it can also be associated in sciences, philosophies, etc.

Many people put faith in the works of a naturalist that failed out of medical school, with his professors saying he has very weak in sciences and maths, but was very strong in theology and philosophy. His successful formal education came from being an ordained minister, after completing seminary college. This minister gets on a boat ride and goes around the world writing down observable traits of various fauna. His books regarding his interpretation of these observation eventually get known as the concept of faith. Hmmm. An ordained minster helping with the concept of evolution. Did he help create a new manmade faith system?

Now the word debates the two types of faith. Some are adamant that there is an unseen deity that created everything. Some are adamant that we are the high form of the evolutionary process. Some like both, and merge the some. No matter which science/philosophy one supports are not supports, they both take faith.

Mohican 06-23-2017 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacia (Post 733607)
is faith stronger and more relevant then god and religion?

God - Father/Son/Holy Spirit is the top for me. My faith is based on my belief.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacia (Post 733607)
for example:

I can have faith in myself or a friend because I believe their friendship has worth in time of needs

This faith involves trust. Or at the least very strong hope.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacia (Post 733607)
or
take a convert
he or she switches religion because he or she develop a faith that convinces them one religion is better then the other.
it is not about god but about the belief a conviction that one thing is better then the other.

faith is more update and more relevant then religion in this cases and many more.
do you agree?

If someone switches religions then either their faith was weak, or perhaps something they believed in proved false, or some combination.

PickleBottom 06-24-2017 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay (Post 733687)
I love the word faith. While many have associated it with religions, it can also be associated in sciences, philosophies, etc.

Many people put faith in the works of a naturalist that failed out of medical school, with his professors saying he has very weak in sciences and maths, but was very strong in theology and philosophy. His successful formal education came from being an ordained minister, after completing seminary college. This minister gets on a boat ride and goes around the world writing down observable traits of various fauna. His books regarding his interpretation of these observation eventually get known as the concept of faith. Hmmm. An ordained minster helping with the concept of evolution. Did he help create a new manmade faith system?

Now the word debates the two types of faith. Some are adamant that there is an unseen deity that created everything. Some are adamant that we are the high form of the evolutionary process. Some like both, and merge the some. No matter which science/philosophy one supports are not supports, they both take faith.

Perhaps degrees of faith/risk/probability/uncertainty?

Suppose there is a probability that my DNA is more similar to your DNA, than your parents DNA is to your DNA, that is, there is a probability that I am more closely related to you than you are to your parents. Would you therefore accept that I am indeed more closely related to you than you are to your parents? Or would you presume you are more closely related to your parents on your knowledge of DNA, meiosis etc, or would you believe you are more closely related to your parents based on "faith", or would you insist on a DNA test?

Myers 06-24-2017 07:34 AM

I don't really think in terms of faith.

I have reasonable exceptions based on experience and what I currently believe is true -- and I have to have some kind of evidence for the latter.

CandraH 06-25-2017 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnConstantine (Post 733683)
Yeah or like... when nations gave up on God and started worshipping the state, North Korea is supposed to be atheist...

I had the perfect amount of Thanks until you came along :shifty:

Thats interesting about North Korea being atheist. I didnt know that. But speaking of North Korea, I watched a video recently of a girl from there talking about some of the horrors she dealt with living there and trying to get out. Here's a link in case anyone wants to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufhKWfPSQOw&t=42s

Your comment also put me in mind of a film I watched about German kids trying to survive in post WWII Germany. It was really interesting to think about things from their point of view, how they'd come to believe the hype and propoganda sold to them by the nazis about Jews and the Allied nations etc. It was also interesting to think that a lot of people in Germany worshipped Hitler like a god or father figure and that ties back into what you were saying about people worshipping the state. It really does show how people are wired to worship and will believe fucking anything if it suits their spiritual needs at the time.

brianpatrick 06-25-2017 02:04 PM

Most communist countries do or have practiced state atheism.

PickleBottom 06-25-2017 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandraH (Post 733805)
Thats interesting about North Korea being atheist. I didnt know that. But speaking of North Korea, I watched a video recently of a girl from there talking about some of the horrors she dealt with living there and trying to get out. Here's a link in case anyone wants to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufhKWfPSQOw&t=42s

Your comment also put me in mind of a film I watched about German kids trying to survive in post WWII Germany. It was really interesting to think about things from their point of view, how they'd come to believe the hype and propoganda sold to them by the nazis about Jews and the Allied nations etc. It was also interesting to think that a lot of people in Germany worshipped Hitler like a god or father figure and that ties back into what you were saying about people worshipping the state. It really does show how people are wired to worship and will believe fucking anything if it suits their spiritual needs at the time.

It boils down to Group Dynamics, religion, politics, social, various miscellaneous ideologies. There are a few key aspects;

1) The in-group by having/following their ideology have characteristics that make them "good"
2) The out-group by not having/following the in-group ideology have characteristics that make them "evil"

It is very Zoroastrian.
But anywho, give 1) power over 2) and 2) are fucked.

We are all monkeys Candra, in the denigrative sense, when a person views the outcome of an ideology, whether it be capitalism, communism, Christianity, and how this is manifested at the top of the human hierarchy and you invariably find monkeys flinging shit at each other. Below this you have the various supporter subordinate "us" monkeys agreeing it was the "them" monkeys who started it.

brianpatrick 06-25-2017 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PickleBottom (Post 733833)
It boils down to Group Dynamics, religion, politics, social, various miscellaneous ideologies. There are a few key aspects;



1) The in-group by having/following their ideology have characteristics that make them "good"

2) The out-group by not having/following the in-group ideology have characteristics that make them "evil"



It is very Zoroastrian.

But anywho, give 1) power over 2) and 2) are fucked.



We are all monkeys Candra, in the denigrative sense, when a person views the outcome of an ideology, whether it be capitalism, communism, Christianity, and how this is manifested at the top of the human hierarchy and you invariably find monkeys flinging shit at each other. Below this you have the various supporter subordinate "us" monkeys agreeing it was the "them" monkeys who started it.



You also have a few wise monkey's who see all the crap and don't want anything to do with the 'us' or 'them' monkey's. They philosophize, paint, write, and perform various anti-social acts and then die without passing on a significant number of their genes. Or worse, they get crucified and somebody starts a religion or a movement that becomes part of the 'us' or 'them' paradox. Fucking monkey's.

PickleBottom 06-26-2017 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianpatrick (Post 733835)
You also have a few wise monkey's who see all the crap and don't want anything to do with the 'us' or 'them' monkey's. They philosophize, paint, write, and perform various anti-social acts and then die without passing on a significant number of their genes. Or worse, they get crucified and somebody starts a religion or a movement that becomes part of the 'us' or 'them' paradox. Fucking monkey's.

Yep, you have the truth of it, the function to describe this is as follows;

For any idea X proposed there is a hierarchical system that will transform it by the following function;

F(x) = cunt(X) * douchebaggery * the square of the speed of light

CandraH 06-26-2017 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianpatrick (Post 733809)
Most communist countries do or have practiced state atheism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PickleBottom (Post 733833)
We are all monkeys Candra

Tell me something I don't know.

PickleBottom 06-26-2017 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandraH (Post 733850)
Tell me something I don't know.

Well! Did you know that Evan from HR has been kissing Becky the Underling Executive Assistant? Yep! I caught them the other day. You see I don't like using the peasant toilet so I usually use the boss's toilet (about 4 or so people down from the big boss but a boss nonetheless), so anywho, I was in the toilet on the third of my bosses weekly golf days and when I left, I peeked through the glass window on his door, and saw them together in the bosses office!

CandraH 06-27-2017 05:19 AM

Lol, nice anecdote.

Interestingly, you seem as confused as me about how to spell the possessive of boss. My old brain tells me it should be boss's but I know thats probably wrong and it's bosses, but I just cant get my head round it. That'll be what 25 years away from school does to learning...

JohnConstantine 06-27-2017 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandraH (Post 733805)
It really does show how people are wired to worship and will believe fucking anything if it suits their spiritual needs at the time.

Yeah creed is mostly a geographical and chronological accident. I mean, if you were a Christian in America BEFORE Europeans turned up then fine, I'd say you have a direct conduit with God.

I'm dating a woman from Zimbabwe atm and a while back she was having a dig at the Catholic church. I was more-or-less on board. But I also mentioned that the likelihood is that she wouldn't be a Christian without them. No Catholic church, no conversion of Europe, no mission in Africa, or specifically Rhodesia... Africa remains an assortment of pagan beliefs. I expected a lot of push back but she took it quite well.

PickleBottom 06-27-2017 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandraH (Post 733887)
Lol, nice anecdote.

Interestingly, you seem as confused as me about how to spell the possessive of boss. My old brain tells me it should be boss's but I know thats probably wrong and it's bosses, but I just cant get my head round it. That'll be what 25 years away from school does to learning...

Ah yes the possessive apostrophe, I don't like using the possessive apostrophe when I talk about the bosses. Else I would be all like, Boss's PickleBottom!

https://media.giphy.com/media/pnPfFgZi3lnO/giphy.gif


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