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JohnConstantine 06-19-2014 09:19 AM

Traditional 'roles'
 
So women have been added to the workforce, which is great, except for the fact that we don't seem to be much better of as a result but there we go.

I want to know two things. Has society now placed a stigma on the stay-at-home mum? It's seems as though if the question of 'what do you do?' is met with 'stay at home mum' it often carries with it a certain element of apprehension or coyness.

I remember watching a comedy gig, Al Murray, whose whole act parodies traditional gender roles, asked the question, and the woman seemed pained to answer.

If I remember correctly there was no backlash, Murray said something like 'greatest job in the world!' And everyone clapped.

The other thing is if you are a stay at home mum (or dad but for the sake of dealing with 'traditional' roles) is it generally your job to do the cooking and the cleaning or is that just 'outdated' somehow?

I might as well divulge that I work, and my partner doesn't. I don't care that she doesn't, I don't think she should have to and I like that she can spend time with the kids and vice versa. In fact I hate the amount of pressure she feels, that being a stay at home mum is comparable with doing nothing with your life. I guess it links back to the stigma, where traditional roles have been so derided that staying at home is viewed as lowly work and expecting the house cleaned is chauvinistic.

I know what's most likely to be said 'chores are shared'. Sure, so I'd rather not get into precisely who does what I realise both parents pitch in. I'm more interested in the stigma, whether you think there is one, where it comes from, what effects it has etc?

Nacia 06-19-2014 09:24 AM

It is never traditional to assume a role but it is more of a common sense and a necessity. to label it traditional just stigamitises the individual.

I feel the a family bond is important and so a mother/father who goes out to work and leavetheir children to be brought up by other work force is emotionally ineffective long terms.
young children are better off brought up by their own parents until they are able to function on their own.
why should a stranger do a job i can perfectly do myself.
instead of childcare i can provide for my family until they are at an age they can socialise and understand everyday life.
I can then go to work after that. it is never too late to assume responsibility just because we are parents.
families should come first if a society is to be healthier and emotionally balanced.
but that is my opinion.

JoeMatt 06-19-2014 10:16 AM

I see very little stigma associated with being a stay at home mom. In fact, I see almost the opposite -- some envy and even status attached to the role. Among women I know, any criticism would probably be met with dismissal. I know my wife feels absolutely no pressure to work -- or guilt - but she does want to go back to work at some point. She sees her primary role now as raising our kids and running the household. She's perfectly happy with that and so am I. To anyone who would look down on my wife for her choice, I say, fuck you.

AnyaKimlun 06-19-2014 12:03 PM

I've never experienced any stigma. (Except on my children's birth certificates. Stay at home mother is not an option for occupation)..

My job is looking after and educating the kids. I take primary responsibility for cooking because of the times my husband works but as far as I am concerned housework is a joint effort.

JustcallmeEd 06-19-2014 02:54 PM

I find that some people still look dismissively at a stay-at-home-mom but I see no greater honor (assuming it's being done right - we're not talking about a woman who's too lazy to work, pawns the kids off on babysitters and fucks off all day).

Just to assign some partial monetary value to it, I was the foreman on a hospital expansion project when I got custody of my kids. I was making pretty good money but when it was all said and done, I was giving my day-care provider nearly half of my take-home pay.

That was just for someplace safe for them to be while I was at work. Add to that the responsibility of imprinting morals, responsibility, ethics, an appropriate sense of humor and self - with building a responsible human being ready to be turned loose safely into the world - there is nothing that can 'buy' that with dollars.

If there is a stigma it is only among the ignorant.

Oh, yeah - good to see you getting bristly there, Joe. More men need to stand up for their women like that (and I'm not kidding around, for once).

Mohican 06-21-2014 04:42 AM

Sometimes the roles are chosen biologically. Sometimes they evolve through a society.

Roles typically develop when a society settles. In unsettled times the roles often start to overlap or disappear.

Bagit 06-21-2014 05:51 PM

Quote:

I was giving my day-care provider nearly half of my take-home pay.

That's why my wife takes the kids to school and teaches pre-school right down the road. (Much tougher being a single parent.)

AnyaKimlun 06-21-2014 06:14 PM

I just appreciate the time I get to spend with my children. As my goal is independent kids who will leave the nest when it is time - our time together all day everyday is all to brief.

With the home education I think it encourages and develops far stronger sibling friendships and bonds.

My being at home allows all of us all more time to enjoy each other.

JustcallmeEd 06-21-2014 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagit (Post 661540)
That's why my wife takes the kids to school and teaches pre-school right down the road. (Much tougher being a single parent.)

I paid day-care providers so much that I seriously thought about getting out of construction and into day-care.

Ryan_Govender 06-22-2014 04:59 AM

My own mother was a stay-at-home-mom. Being somewhat from an Indian culture, my mother had felt that it was her role as a woman because that was what her mother did and her mother's mother etc.

In My own experience, watching my mother, being a housewife or stay-at-home-mom is a full time job. Get involved with the kids' lives, make sure their fed and well taken care off, raise them, calculate budgets and home economy. It's a hard and unappreciative job. From my own personal view I have nothing but respect for them. They are not less than say a corporate career woman. Not by a long-shot.

JoeMatt 06-22-2014 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnyaKimlun (Post 661542)
I just appreciate the time I get to spend with my children. As my goal is independent kids who will leave the nest when it is time - our time together all day everyday is all to brief.

With the home education I think it encourages and develops far stronger sibling friendships and bonds.

My being at home allows all of us all more time to enjoy each other.

This could have come straight from my wife.

I worked at home for several years -- I often helped out with the home schooling and other day-to-day things with the kids. Before that, when our oldest was first born, I stayed at home while my wife worked for almost a year. When I started working at an office every day both my wife and kids were really upset -- I wondered if it was worth the additional money and benefits etc. My wife didn't really think so -- and it was the cause of some conflict between us. The thing was, I often had to work really late after the kids were in bed -- that got pretty tiring -- and I really wanted to take my career forward. In the long run, it's all worked out for the best -- but I wouldn't trade that time at home for anything.

Pandora 06-25-2014 09:02 AM

Today is much different than 30 years ago when I was raising my kids. Before I worked at the biz I ran into a lot of feminists that gave me a hard time for staying home. My best buddy a stay at home Mom as well. She would say, "who would want to work if the didn't have to?" whenever we got guff. The other ladies could tell we were enjoying, having fun staying home with our little ones, secure in the choice.

Today I think staying home might be envied and a man who does, admired. It is a blessing to be able to have that time, which flies by, with our children.

AnyaKimlun 06-25-2014 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMatt (Post 661614)
This could have come straight from my wife.

I worked at home for several years -- I often helped out with the home schooling and other day-to-day things with the kids. Before that, when our oldest was first born, I stayed at home while my wife worked for almost a year. When I started working at an office every day both my wife and kids were really upset -- I wondered if it was worth the additional money and benefits etc. My wife didn't really think so -- and it was the cause of some conflict between us. The thing was, I often had to work really late after the kids were in bed -- that got pretty tiring -- and I really wanted to take my career forward. In the long run, it's all worked out for the best -- but I wouldn't trade that time at home for anything.

We faced a similar dilemma. My husband had his own business which involved him being at home all day but also crazy hours.

He decided to take a pay cut and work outside the home but for regular hours. We spent a year sending kisses to Daddy whenever we saw a wood truck (he works for a timber company) - the truck drivers probably wondered who the batty woman that kept blowing them kisses was :). To be honest I still really miss him although it is better.

Escriber* 06-28-2014 10:34 AM

Traditional 'Roles'
 
I agree that there is a stigma attached to any 'female that works'.

Sometimes racial. Sometimes orientation.

Where it comes from, is prescribed 'class' ideology about
the nuclear family. But, think really hard. Isn't the nuclear family the worse of them all?:happkitty:

JohnConstantine 06-28-2014 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escriber* (Post 663025)
I agree that there is a stigma attached to any 'female that works'.

Sometimes racial. Sometimes orientation.

Where it comes from, is prescribed 'class' ideology about
the nuclear family. But, think really hard. Isn't the nuclear family the worse of them all?:happkitty:

No. And that's my problem, that people might think that for some obscure reason.

Why should the convention or traditional family be the 'worst of them all'?

The pressure to conform is a whole separate issue. We're not talking about compulsion here.

It would be a delicate thing to bring up an optimum family unit, nuclear or otherwise, whether it functions well is surely all that matters; and if conventional works then so beit.

I guess my main issue is a Marxist one. Marx argued that Capitalism was turning the family into a business transaction and robbing family members of the time to engage with each other in a meaningful way. Now the father's working hours might be shorter than in Marx' day, but now the mothers are also pressured to, or expected to work, and perhaps even derided by their peers if they don't. I'm sure he would have something to say about that.

AnyaKimlun 06-28-2014 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escriber* (Post 663025)
.

Where it comes from, is prescribed 'class' ideology about
the nuclear family. But, think really hard. Isn't the nuclear family the worse of them all?:happkitty:

It serves a purpose but an extended/tribal style family does work better in many cases.

Mohican 07-14-2017 10:31 AM

Moved and re-activated - deserves more discussion

Prodigalson 07-17-2017 01:02 PM

This kind of ties in with the "Disparity of Outcome" thread, in that one of the reasons some women feel compelled to work is their feeling that their family is inadequate if they don't have certain things that no one ever needed before.

In two or three generations we have gone from a culture where thrift and "making do" were honored, to one where every kid has to have a smart phone with unlimited data; new clothes because that's what TV tells you they need, not because the old ones wore out; and everyone's embarrassed to drive a car that's "too old", even though it runs well.

This ideal outcome that the proponents of equality want everyone to have is unsupportable. All a person needs is food, shelter, and some meaningful interaction with other people. We're fortunate to live in a rich country where things which are considered luxuries in other places are commonly possessed by even the poor, here, but a lot of people are happy with the basic necessities.

If that makes people with a lot of shit feel guilty, fine, but they shouldn't flagellate themselves trying to bring everyone up to their standards. And a woman shouldn't feel like she has to leave the home and work just to try and meet someone's else's arbitrary idea of what their family should have.

If she's doing it because she thinks that's what's best for her family, more power to her, and hopefully her kid doesn't spend too much time in Juvie.


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